AZ.......” AZ......So your two citations of the constitution state that you are born with these rights, except “naturalized” citizens (like me), who get those rights bestowed on us. Correct?”
You have yet to answer this question.
AZ....... First, I never mentioned anything about a “soul”. I am not basing this debate on the invisible, so please do not try to saddle me into anything of the sort.
Second, even identical twins do not share the exact same DNA. Their finger prints and retinal scans have been proven to be different at birth, in many studies.
So “your” definition of life or death is “brain function”?
"If you can’t understand the difference between life and death, this discussion is fruitless."
I understand. Alive is when the brain is functioning sufficiently to provide the control necessary to provide life-support, heart beat AND breathing. Not alive is when there isn't that level of brain activity. But, you don't want to use that standard for both, because then abortion is okay.
What most anti-abortion people really want to say is that one is when the soul begins to exist, and the other is when the soul goes to heaven... except you know you can't use that argument. So, you make up bullshit about "unique DNA" even though twins are 2 people without unique DNA,and it is not even close to the standard for death.
I reject your "unique DNA" as a complete bullshit argument without support in the Constitution or British Common Law which is the rights retained by the 9th amendment.
That is 2 more references than "fertilized egg". Where does it say int he Constitution that all rights begin when the sperm enters the egg?
AZ.....” Why would they not be the same?”
If you can’t understand the difference between life and death, this discussion is fruitless.
AZ......So your two citations of the constitution state that you are born with these rights, except “naturalized” citizens (like me), who get those rights bestowed on us. Correct?
". But we were not debating the threshold for “death”. We were debating the threshold for “life”."
Why would they not be the same?
AZ.....” So, twins are the same person?”
No, they are not.
AZ......” f that "unique DNA" is what makes us a person instead of a blob of cells, and that is the standard of "life", then why would it not also be a standard for death?”
Because degradation of DNA is usually a component of decomposition but can also that place during some pathogenic responses. Therefore, degradation is not a useful measure of death. But we were not debating the threshold for “death”. We were debating the threshold for “life”.
"Completely new and unique DNA that is specific to that individual."
So, twins are the same person?
"I was not defining “death” or a “standard of death”. Nor did I mention degradation of DNA."
If that "unique DNA" is what makes us a person instead of a blob of cells, and that is the standard of "life", then why would it not also be a standard for death?
"Please cite where it says that rights “begin at birth” in the constitution."
"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside." NOT all eggs fertilized in the United States.
"No Person except a natural born Citizen, ... shall be eligible to the Office of President;" NOT developed from an egg fertilized in the United States.
AZ......” So, the standard of death is that your DNA has to degrade, instead of just that your brain is no longer functioning?”
I was not defining “death” or a “standard of death”. Nor did I mention degradation of DNA.
"Completely new and unique DNA that is specific to that individual."
So, the standard of death is that your DNA has to degrade, instead of just that your brain is no longer functioning?
"The federal government in my opinion shouldn't be a player in this arena."
Do you feel the same about guns, since both guns and abortions are protected by the Constitution?
Or are you just another one of those people that claim to love the Constitution, but really you mean you love the 2nd clause of the 2nd Amendment and pretty much hate the rest of it.
Doesn't have to be relevant but thanks for correcting me
2much.....” It would be a wonderful world if people cared as much about all these babies after they were born.”
As someone who was adopted, I completely agree. But not very relevant to the abortion issue.
It would be a wonderful world if people cared as much about all these babies after they were born.
AZ........” What make a fertilized egg a child, but not an unfertilized egg?”
Completely new and unique DNA that is specific to that individual.
AZ.....”Not under the Constitution which repeatedly says rights begin at birth.”
Please cite where it says that rights “begin at birth” in the constitution.
I'm going to come out and say that I am sort of wishy washy on abortion. I lean prolife but I also have a rather wide range of what I consider to be acceptable circumstances.
I do though believe as I stated at one point. Think that it should be decided state by state. The federal government in my opinion shouldn't be a player in this arena.
"Otherwise, you are killing an innocent, unborn child." Not under the Constitution which repeatedly says rights begin at birth. No mention of conception.
What make a fertilized egg a child, but not an unfertilized egg?
Erotic......” So yes, I do understand nuance, this is not one of those scenarios. If you believe that Jesus died for YOUR sins, then you should be against the death penalty.”
First, I didn’t say I had any belief in Jesus or any other “God”. I stated that the comparison to the death penalty and abortion are not cut and dry or “simple”, to use your words. I also stated that I rarely believe in the death penalty. I’ll further clarify that by saying I don’t believe in the “death penalty” at all. Meaning adjudication of a sentence. Administering a “death sentence” to someone trying to kill you or your family is my caveat. I agree 100% with that. Would I prefer in most cases that the person be restrained and remanded to the police? Certainly I would, but that is not always possible.
As for abortion, if the life of the mother is at risk, I’m completely in favor of abortion. Otherwise, you are killing an innocent, unborn child. Nope!
Go rob a liquor store to support your local police, Mr Cogent.
If Jesus died so that we will be forgiven for our sins, then it is VERY Christian to sin as much as possible.... else Jesus died for nothing.
