Off with the current primary process' head ! !

More parties more corruption. You can have a situation in which a party can win election and become minority.

There is not really any objective reality that we can discern.

All of our perception is wrapped up in our knowledge, training, anxieties, and prejudices.

We can not step outside of our perceptions to see things as they really are.

You're still wrong. There's no point debating it again, you'll just switch off to some meaningless euphemism and go into a frothy rage, why bother? We are different in that I don't need to call people names to convince myself that I'm right about my opinion. You seem to need to do that as a matter of course.

And thus the problem.

You are taking SUBJECTIVE interpretations by others as factual and presenting it as objective. It is NOT.

While it is easy to say that beauty is subjective, a lot of the points that you bring up are also subjective.

Things are NOT always binary. As an example, are you alive or are you dead. That is binary. You are either one or the other. How your life is is subjective. And this is the whole reality concept. From my reality, your life is terrible. Why? Because you live in a state that is so fucking hot that shit melts on the ground! To me that is a terrible life to live. However, you may like it there and you may enjoy your life and think it's great. Who is wrong? Neither of us are. And guess what . . . it is reality. It is my reality that your life is terrible and your reality that your life is great. Hmm :)

So when you come in and start out by asking a question, "Who creates money?" and you do not like my answer, it doesn't mean I am wrong. It means that you phrased the question wrong. Because, by all means, the operators of the printing press and the people who mint the coins are the people who create money. Perhaps you mean to ask, "How does the supply of money expand?" Then it's a whole other way of thinking about it. And for those that say work, they may not be that far off. Because, isn't it the appreciation of something that creates the expansion? If I buy a picasso for $10mm and store it for 10 years, is it worth $10mm? Nope, it's probably worth $22mm. Where did that $12mm come from :)

But back to the topic of presentation. I am not doubting that you are a smart person. I have no problem with the long posts. I have no problem with the fact that you research things. Just don't expect even if you have done all of that, that people may disagree because there is always a form of subjectivity, unless of course, we are just recording numbers. Then the subjectivity kicks in in how we interpret the numbers. You know, the infamous buy two lottery tickets to double your odds. Technically it did double your odds, but the significance is near nil.

"Objective opinion is about shared reality, meaning that we don't get our own truth. There is A truth."

Can you define truth? Philosophers have been debating it for centuries.

I didn't think it necessary to explain to adults the difference between subjective and objective opinion, but I guess it is.

Subjective opinion involves personal taste and experience. These opinion do not apply to a reality apart from human experience. Favorite food, favorite color, favorite sex position... all purely subjective, personal, and do not apply to shared reality.

Objective opinion is about shared reality, meaning that we don't get our own truth. There is A truth.

It is objective opinion, NOT subjective, that US Bills are Federal Reserve Notes (Bank note money), and it is not subjective opinion that bank note money is created when banks put assets on their balance sheet, and since 98% of assets on balance sheets are debt, it is NOT subjective opinion to say money is created when people take out loans from banks.

If you believe that money is created by work, than you are objectively, verifiably, completely, ignorantly, WRONG!

What would make it "religion like" if I demanded you take my word for it on faith. Instead, I GREATLY encourage people to do a simply fucking google search to discover that what I say is true. Instead of doing that simple google search, they choose to embrace their willful ignorance by saying bullshit like "we don't come here to learn".

You can't fix stupid. You can't fix willful ignorance.

Bringing it back to this topic, it is not my subjective opinion that countries with more than 2 major political parties are on the parliamentary system, and that parliamentary systems rely on coalition to elect a prime minister and push legislation, and it is not my subjective opinion that in these parliamentary systems, effectively, you are still forced to choose which party to vote for based on which of the 2 coalitions they belong to. Your vote ends up being for or against the entire coalition, and not just the party. As such, is really little different than the 2 party system.

I state this as objective fact, which can be verified by studying the politics of the many countries with parliamentary system.

I have no problem with the length of the messages. I have no problem with the conversation. I have a problem when the response is akin to religion. Yes. That is the analogy. When you state things, you are stating that it is the only way and there are no other ways. That is not enlightening, that is preaching.

So if you want to continue saying it's my way, the only way, then I will just sit back and laugh and chuckle.

If you really want to force people to believe what you preach, either become a preacher or a professor. Either way you have a captive audience that are forced to agree with you.

Or maybe if you just don't decide that everyone else is wrong about everything?

Maybe if you shortened your messages, were less pedantic, and didn't express the opinion that you are smarter than everyone your message would be better received...

Maybe you shouldn't worry about what other people think or say so much.

People go to the political forums to argue with each other, not to learn anything...

It is what it is... the sun comes up every morning. There's still lots of reasons to be happy.

"You can be an optimistic realist if you try."

Really?

Every time I try to explain how things work so that we can actually make things better, I'm always greeted with "Fuck off! We're not here to learn. Our minds are made up, and we have no interest in actually thinking."

How can you be optimistic when you live in a world full of willfully, proudly ignorant people?

You can be an optimistic realist if you try.

"You always have such a positive outlook on life..."

Realist or pessimist. Is there really that much difference?

You always have such a positive outlook on life...

The only way to get more than 2 parties would be to go to parliamentary elections.

Instead of voting for a person, we'd vote for a party, then the party selects the people. If Green Party or Libertarian party pull 10% of the vote, then they get 10% of the seats. Then you end up with 10 or 12 political parties, with the largest having 20% and the smallest having 5% or less.

You still have the problem that politics make strange bed fellows. To get anything done in the parliamentary system you have to get more than 50% of votes, meaning forming a coalition. The Labor Party, the Green Party, the Socialist Party, the Rainbow Party, the Latinx Party, etc would have to come together and agree on a platform. You just end up with two coalitions, the conservatives and the liberals.

In effect, you are right back to voting for one of 2 choices. One election, the conservative coalition wins 51-49. The next election, a few switch from the Bible Thumper party to the Labor Union party, and the liberal coalition wins 51-49.

So, now you are like... I like the Libertarian Economic policies where the rich get richer and the animals that work for minimum wage can fuck off and die... but I don't like that the Bible Thumper aspect of the Repugnant Party... hmmm... Do I vote Democrat for "gay rights", even though you don't like their economics? Do I vote Republican because you like their "fuck the poor" economic policies even though they are aligned with the gay bashers? Tough choice! You're like... man, I wish there were better options... we need more parties.

But, then under parliamentary, dozen party system, it is the exact same quandary, with the pro-gay-rights party aligned with the "tax the rich" socialists... so do you vote "fuck the poor" even though they are in coalition with the "bash fags" party, or do you vote "gay right" even though they are aligned with the fucking communists.

Either way, the lament that politics makes strange bed fellows, and the fact that you end up holding your nose when placing your vote, because the choices suck, remains.

It is a good thought, and being implemented on a small scale some places, IIRC.

But as soon as it becomes a threat to the powers that be, it will suffer SIDS.

I am not talking about as it relates to 2020, but in general.

There will be no 3rd or 4rth parties.. No matter how desparate the conservtives become there will be no split votes on the dem side, and no help from putin. Trump did not deliver. Putin is still out of G7 and the sanctions are still in place. Trump should first win the primary against Walsh and we shall see how many never-trumpers conservatives are out there.

Time to roll with ranked primaries...
Heck, why stop there. Ranked general elections would be key to getting 3rd, 4th and 5th parties get into the conversation...

10pts for your 1st Choice
5pts for your 2nd Choice
3pts for your 3rd Choice
1pt for your 4th Choice

((or something like that))

Cause, you and I might disagree on who we like most, but maybe we both agree on who we like 2nd or 3rd most. It would certainly keep folk from investing all they have on lifting their chosen candidate, and from throwing everything they've got against their opponent. 'Cause folk would need to worry about the less-polarizing 2nd, 3rd or 4th options. It might also keep half the country from gloating while the other half loses their mind as a result of our general elections.

Figure folk might come away saying... well, not my first choice... but it could be worse.