"I don't give a damn about the debt or deficit. Nobody elected seems to care, why should I ?"
You should care far more about private sector debt than public. 2008 is why. Private sector debt is far more likely to cascade default, collapsing the economy. The only way we were able to stop the collapse was to transfer $1.5T of that bad, private debt to the federal government.
"Maybe their kids spend more and actually take care of the family,"
As if they aren't already spending all their income and then some. Do I need to point out debt statistics again?
"Maybe younger people start to plan for old age like us responsible people do. I'm certainly not going to live on Social Security."
Every country should have a trade surplus!
"Do you know why you're not supposed to feed the bears in the national parks? Dependency. I really don't think you grasp that."
Because it brings them around people, and removes their fear of people, then they start damaging property and attacking people.
Healthcare, free college and $12 minimum wage is not dependency.
Or do I need to repeat how I'd like to see an end to section 8 housing subsidy, constantly argue against universal basic income, and the need to have fewer people on food stamps (which is what will happen when we raise the minimum wage)?
Should I repeat my attack on state socialism? The fatal flaw of socialism is that by disconnecting effort from reward is that few work hard, so little gets produced. People with money stand in long lines waiting to get into stores with nothing on the shelves.
You continue to attempt to strawman what I am actually saying into things you can more easily defeat.
I don't give a damn about the debt or deficit. Nobody elected seems to care, why should I ?
"Cut Social Security. Old people spend more or less? "
Maybe their kids spend more and actually take care of the family, Maybe younger people start to plan for old age like us responsible people do. I'm certainly not going to live on Social Security.
Do you know why you're not supposed to feed the bears in the national parks? Dependency. I really don't think you grasp that.
"I said don't whine about the deficit unless you are willing to cut mandatory spending. Read much?"
I whine about total debt, skyrocketing at 3x the sustainable rate as needed to fund structural imbalances.
It is the Republicans that whine about just the portion of that debt that is the national government's share.
Besides, there are other ways of reducing the deficit other than spending cuts... like tax increases, or just putting more money in the hands of those most likely to spend it, to grow the economy.
You defend tax cuts as stimulating the economy, then ignore that government spending ALSO stimulates the economy, and since the multiply is higher, government spending is MORE of a stimulant to the economy than tax cuts.
Cut Social Security. Old people spend more or less?
"Most would say we shouldn't cut SS and MC, and yet you think we should. "
I said don't whine about the deficit unless you are willing to cut mandatory spending. Read much?
"Apples and oranges. They would never say it should be 90+ percent of the budget. "
How is that apples and oranges?
Most would say we shouldn't cut SS and MC, and yet you think we should.
Most wouldn't say social spending should be 90% of federal budget, but I'd be okay if it were.
It is okay if you want things most people don't want. But it is not okay for me to be okay with (not even want.. just okay with if it happened) something that most people would be against?
Either "most people" is a valid argument, or it isn't.
"As an example, the 3rd-rail of politics is Social Security and Medicare. Over 90% of the population is against cuts in these programs. "
Apples and oranges. They would never say it should be 90+ percent of the budget. I'm guessing as many people like having a military defending the country, but they wouldn't want 90% of the budget going to it. Most people are reasonable. You are not on this subject.
"95% of the population would say it's unreasonable to spend 90% of the budget on Social programs. "
So.... popularity of an idea is proof of the validity of the idea.
As an example, the 3rd-rail of politics is Social Security and Medicare. Over 90% of the population is against cuts in these programs.
Based on your assertion, being okay with cutting these programs is unreasonable.... right?
"Military spending budget."
Agree. As a veteran, this is just one of the many areas where I disagree with others on "my side" of the political aisle.
Iran infiltrates Yemen and starts a revolution. Saudi Arabia fights back against Iranian insurgents, and suddenly Saudi Arabia is the bad guys?
(Saudi Arabia government is terrible, but only because they have to be terrible or the terrible people that live there would rise in revolt and replace the royal family with something far worse.... but in the case of Yemen, they are only fighting back against Iranian aggression.)
Military spending budget. "Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it."
110% of Perf statistics are made up.
95% of the population would say it's unreasonable to spend 90% of the budget on Social programs. Just because you can't see it doesn't make it so.
"Nope, you are completely unreasonable."
My beliefs are so different than yours that you are incapable of accepting their logic.
Confirmation bias.
That is not the same as unreasonable.
"I'm sorry. Did I ask a question that you couldn't answer? Taking the ball and going home? "
Nope, you are completely unreasonable.
"There's really no point in discussing this further"
I'm sorry. Did I ask a question that you couldn't answer? Taking the ball and going home?
Let's say the federal government currently spends $4.8T and spends $3.6T of that on "social" programs. But, let's say states spend another $500B on Medicaid matching funds and other social programs. Let's say we transfer that spending to the federal government, lowering state income taxes but offsetting with higher federal taxes.
Let's also say we reclassify education spending from discretionary to mandatory and call it social spending. And, we include free college tuition.... Hundreds of billions a year!
Then let's say instead of buying my health insurance from a for-profit company, I buy it from the federal government... There is $1.5T a year more "social spending".
I also wouldn't mind seeing SS payments increased, funded by eliminating the cap and applying payroll taxes to capital gains.
So defense, prisons and transportation ends up being $800B of an $8T federal budget... I'm perfectly okay with that.
"Sure. Why not?"
There's really no point in discussing this further.
"a. Tax cuts stimulate the economy. It's been proven all over the world, time and time again"
So does spending. Spending actually stimulates the economy more. Google "multiplier effect".
"b. We're going to end up with 70% of the budget on social spending, how much would you like to be?? 90%? lol"
Sure. Why not?
"c. Military spending is actually part of the duties of the Federal Gov't. 'provide for the common defense'"
As is "promoting the general welfare" and "ensuring domestic tranquility".
" Why is there always money for a tax cut and military spending, but never money for social spending? "
a. Tax cuts stimulate the economy. It's been proven all over the world, time and time again
b. We're going to end up with 70% of the budget on social spending, how much would you like to be?? 90%? lol
c. Military spending is actually part of the duties of the Federal Gov't. "provide for the common defense"
"Don't whine about deficits if you're not willing at looking into cutting mandatory spending."
1) PLEASE demand Republicans run on a platform of slashing Social Security and Medicare the way we liberals are demanding the Democrats run on a platform of Medicare-for-All. PLEASE!!!!
2) Debt is the result of an imbalance. The imbalances that plague our economy were created by Reaganomics, and require about $2 trillion a year in new debt be created. If households and businesses aren't creating all that new debt, then government had to "take up the slack".
3) It is the Republicans that whine about deficits (but only when Democrats are in power). I whine about total debt. Most Democrats are under the false impression that debt doesn't matter at all.
4) Why is there always money for a tax cut and military spending, but never money for social spending?
5) We always knew SS and MC spending would skyrocket as Baby Boomers aged. What is the option? Kill off the Boomers?
Inflation benefits the DEBATOR aka DEFICIT the most. The only way will be to INFLATION ourselves out of the DEFICIT.
To Perf, everything bad that happens is the Democrats fault.
Nothing to see here.
Yes, Obama presided over the slowest recovery in our history and left our military in disarray.
Perfect. How dare you blame Obama for leaving the military in “disarray”. The Republicans have to take their fair share of the blame for this. It was called budget sequestration!!! And the Republicans are just as much to blame as Obama. Everyone thought they were fucking the other guy with this. And you know who got fucked? The military. The number of people who who’s lives were cut short because of this is sickening. Read the accident reports. “Lack of Training” is cited in many of them. Why was there a “Lack of training “? Because politicians were playing games. Pilots could not get ass time in aircraft. Tanks were left disabled. Parts for ships were not available. A lot of mom and dads did not get to come home to their families because of this. Sons and daughters were lost because of this. Fuck you for blaming Obama. Ryan and McConnell have to look in the mirror also.
By 2023 mandatory spending will be 77% of the budget. Don't whine about deficits if you're not willing at looking into cutting mandatory spending.
"Before the 1965 creation of Medicare and Medicaid, mandatory spending was less than 30% of all federal spending. At that time, Social Security accounted for about half of all mandatory spending. Discretionary spending is now at a historic low as a proportion of total federal outlays,"
So... execute the Baby Boomers?
Please, please, PLEASE Republicans, run on a platform of eliminating Medicare and Medicaid and slashing Social Security! PLEASE!!!
