Death Penalty

2out, good point, Yes, Make Northern Alaska a Penal Colony. One way in, no way out.

Why fly out? Polar bears need to eat too.

LOL

Death_Penalty is a total waste of time. Years of appeals, years on death row, victims families have to deal with it. Best for criminals is life without parole or pardons in far away prisons with little amenities. Northern Alaska is the place to go. In by airplane, out by airplane.

Since 1973 170 people that have been sentenced to death, have later had the death penalty verdict overturned. Now, not close to all 170 of those were actually innocent, with the majority being overturned based on questionable tactics of prosecution or judge rulings and jury instruction. You know, regular old appeal stuff. That is close to 10% of executions... but not 1 in 10 were "innocent".

Of the 1500+ execution over the last 45 years, anti-death-penalty advocate groups hold up about 18 cases where the person "may" have been innocent... maybe. We're starting to get closer to 1%, if we accept most of the "maybe" were actually innocent

Also, we have learned what police tactics most likely lead to false convictions, and no longer use those procedures. Cops would show a victim a set of 6 photos, and say "which one did it". This lead to pressure on the victim to pick the one that looked closest. Once the victim picks someone, that image then becomes a false memory, integrating into the actual memory. Police now have to show 3 sets of 6 photos and ask if they see the person, so that on no set, is there pressure to pick someone/anyone.

That isn't to say that there are not still innocent people convicted, just that the odds seem to have fallen significanlty.

“ State on average kills 1 in 10 innocents on it ”

What? Surely you aren’t saying that 1 in 10 that are put to death were innocent?

Ridiculous.

Watched a man speak on death penalty on C-Span few weeks ago. Some neutral society that was studying the effects on it. From what I can recall

-State on average kills 1 in 10 innocents on it
-Several people have over the decades have been let go due to DNA over turning them
-Successful trials and defenses have largely come down to how much money a person has, not if they're guilty. This has resulted in the DP heavily bent on killing the poor at unequal rate despite similar or greater crime.
-Because of the high burden that has to be met, it costs more to execute the person than it would to simply house them for life.
-Most families & victims when interviewed said they did not feel any satisfaction, relief, or joy when said person was executed.

There was hell of a lot more if you search the site. My personal opinion, I'd be all for it if the state could 100% without question guarantee the person truly did some serous crime. But as stated it will be unequally applied because money talks and god knows the government makes mistakes on even simple shit.

If you offer up to me the equivalent dollars that it would take to incarcerate some murderous raping scumbag for 20-30 years. I'd shoot the fucker myself.

When a person lowers themselves to the point of being not only a burden on society but even a danger to society, then absolutely they should be given a dollar value...

Would you spend 10 grand on a dog that after you saved him you would have to keep him penned up for the rest of his life?

Hell no. You'd put his ass down. A whole bunch of these fuckers aren't any better than a rabid dog.

Manson was nowhere near Cielo Dr. when Tate was killed...

@Just

If you start valuing money over life, then you are on a very dangerous slope. Let's follow your logic :)

Let's use Charles Manson as an example.

Manson kills Tate.

Manson is apprehended by the police.

The DA decides to prosecute Manson.

The court hears the trial of Manson.

The jury convicts Manson.

The judge sentences Manson.

Manson goes to jail for life.

That is the reality.

You are arguing that the cost of incarnation is the issue.

Ok, why is it just that cost? Why not kill him as soon as the judge sentences him? Ok, then why do we expend money to have the judge try the case? Why not just kill him before trial? Wait, why should we capture him with the police. Why not just have the police kill him? Look at all the costs we would save.

We have a system in place that expends money. We are, in theory, a civilized society.

Now, there are approximately 200k people in the US prison system with life sentences. They could be there for things other than murder. What is the cost to house those 200k people? I looked at the state of California because this is where I live and it ties into Manson :)

The prison budget for ALL prisoners is 2.3% of the state's revenue.

Your argument about the relatives who are around, well, ok, that's nice, but it holds no water if the person has no relatives. There is no one to miss the person. You are also, indirectly, advocating, for Thoreau in his piece, "Civil Disobedience." If you are not aware of the piece, I think it was around 1850. He did not like the US going to war with Mexico. He figured out how much the war cost compared to the budget of the government and deducted that percentage from his taxes. He stated he could not fund it. So the 'relatives' who lost the person, what would their burden be? We first have to assume that they even pay taxes! According to a lot of people on these forums, only billionaires pay taxes and the rest are leeches. So I suspect, that if they do pay taxes, at most, they would withhold a quarter.

I am not saying that these people are angels by any means. I am not saying that these people should not be incarcerated. I am saying that killing them will not bring back the person(s) that they killed. Killing them is just a vindictive act. The goal is to make sure that the guilty party is NOT in society. You are arguing that they should be permanently removed from the planet.

"Are we talking Lethal Injection? Abortion? Homelessness? Poverty? Addiction to illegal drugs? Inner city crime?"

I'm for reducing all of these, including the very unpopular opinion of using heart-beat to determine start of person-hood for abortion purposes.

Homelessness is a complicated one because there are 2 main types of homeless people. There are the temporarily homeless people, that are looking for a hand up and can be helped to no longer be homeless. They lost a job, had an illness or ended a co-habitation relationship and need help getting a job, getting a security deposit and rental subsidy, then won't be homeless for long.

Then, there are the crazy, drug-addicted, permanent homeless people that do not want nor will they accept assistance integrating back into being employed and able to pay rent. There isn't much if anything we can do for these people other than forced in-patient treatment in a metal institution... aka: Lock them up in the loony bin.

Crime is the easy one. It automatically falls with the reduction of poverty. Reduction of poverty is only difficult because the rich people that control elections via campaign donations won't allow it.

"I still feel that way but like Andrew, I dont trust the court system 100%."

If you agree with Andrew on anything, I wonder about your mental health...

"Whilst I am slow to agree that an eye for an eye is best, I am of the opinion that if a man takes another persons life "maliciously", why should he live to enjoy the benefits of his wickedness?"

So, spending the rest of your life in isolation in a prison cell is "enjoying the benefits"?

"Why should he be kept in a correction center at further expense to the State and other taxpayers?" The extra court expenses resulting from death penalty conviction are more expensive than keeping someone in jail for 50 years.

@eroticamazon,. Whilst I am slow to agree that an eye for an eye is best, I am of the opinion that if a man takes another persons life "maliciously", why should he live to enjoy the benefits of his wickedness? Why should he be kept in a correction center at further expense to the State and other taxpayers? Assuming he commits the crime at age 30 and lives to age 80 or more, that means taxpayers will be funding his lifestyle for 50 odd years. Meanwhile, his victims family and those he has deprived of the company of their loved one, will also have to contribute to this new life of his. What we need to clamour for is the continuing straightening of the system so that an innocent person is not wrongly convicted.

Why they’re all dead silly. But all of your examples are not the same as capital punishment. Just because you’re homeless doesn’t mean you’re going to die from that. No one said, “You over there, you did X wrong, you are to die by being homeless”.

You really make yourself look stupider with each post you put up.

ONEHELL---->So you’re saying Homelessness, poverty and inner city crime is the same the death penalty?

Sigh....here we go again. OK, you get a firm grip on your pearls, I'll fire up the hamster wheel and see how far and fast your can run

You walk into a morgue. On the cold steel slab are 5 bodies laying side by side covered in sheets. What is the ONE thing all five bodies have in common?

“Are we talking Lethal Injection? Abortion? Homelessness? Poverty? Addiction to illegal drugs? Inner city crime?”

So you’re saying Homelessness, poverty and inner city crime is the same the death penalty?

I'm totally against it. I think one year of vacation Bible school and return them to society.

Are we talking Lethal Injection? Abortion? Homelessness? Poverty? Addiction to illegal drugs? Inner city crime?

America is a funny place. Willing to protest against some version of a death penalty and shield our eyes against others. My guess? It's your personal woke quotient or what's fashionable or trending on Twitter on a particular day.

Like a lot here, I have flipped around on this subject. Used to be 100% for it. Animals that get the death penalty don't deserve to breathe. I still feel that way but like Andrew, I dont trust the court system 100%. Overall I agree with the death penalty more than I disagree with it.

Looks as though the Supremes have cleared the way for another execution.

No executions in 16 years. Trump last year announces they are to resume.

11 months later, in the midsts of a pandemic, economic downturn, and race relations. With his re-election slipping away with every move he makes. Four are scheduled. Law and Order President plays to his base. And the Base can’t get enough. They want one everyday.

" then you should die for it." For what social gain? Revenge? Eye for an eye simply results in the entire world being blind.

I'm against the death penalty.

I'm FOR the death penalty in principle. If you kill maliciously, or do something so heinously evil that it shocks everyone's sensibilities, then you should die for it.

However, I don't trust the courts in our current injustice system to always get the right person.

So I'm against the death penalty.

"Many are beyond reform or redemption. They are pure evil, and need to be removed from existence."

Some people definitely need to be permanently removed from society.

If permanent isolation in confinement is cheaper and gives the possibility of release ater discovering they were innocent, why is this not the better option?

From the WTF thread.

"Seems an execution is porn to these so-called pro-lifers."

Just as many carry guns, not from fear of needing the gun, but rather hoping for the opportunity to use it.