Good evening -advice please.

"I have no problem sending face pics to the right people, even though their not on my profile."

I'm probably not the only person who will not exchange photos except through SLS. I'm not saying you're wrong, just that this is something that will limit your pool.

There are always exceptions, as Velma acknowledged, but she's not the only one who questions the motivations of many single men who are interested in swinging. The thing I often run across (and run from) is men who think that being sex motivated means women who swing are ambulatory Fleshlights.

Mistaking women for sex toys isn't just something single men do, but marrled men do it differently.

Wow...VelmaandShaggy really seems to lump all of us single males into one category. Generalizing is never a good thing. In my vast experience, people have all sorts of different reasons for doing or not doing all sorts of different things. Personally, I don't have a single full face pic in any of my albums. That's doesn't mean I'm a cheater, or ugly, or have any type of nefarious ulterior motives or anything. Some of us just like to keep some parts of our selves semi-private. I think opening a dialogue with people you're interested in is more important than having fully identifying pictures online. Of course...the multitudes that have their profile hidden from single males seem a bit closed minded and probably not a whole lot of fun anyway. I'm always glad to know that up front. Also, this site isn't entirely friendly to everyone. Us Trans people being the best example. We are limited to single male, even if we have a partner. Personally, I have a female partner, which I state in my profile, but I'm still limited, while charged the same amount, to only marketing myself and my partner to like half the site's users. I have no problem sending face pics to the right people, even though their not on my profile. The sad reality is...a lot of users will never even know I exist.

"For example and here is where I “pick” on you some. You tell me that you only have your shirtless pictures in private and that is simply not true. Two of the 5 pictures you show are shirtless including on of you laid out at the pool."

Pickingredients on me is sort of like throwing Br'er Rabbit in the briar patch.

But, I do stand corrected. I have the same two pics in my private album without the face blocked out as you pointed out.

In my own defense though, a lady has to actually open my photos and specifically look through to see them. It definately would not do me any favors to have either of those as my main profile avatar.

Thanks for the feedback Tramp, appreciate it.

I understand the shirt vs no shirt points. Again I guess I’m going against my own thoughts in that I don’t want to see my screen filled with breasts as an introduction.

And I’m sorry that you feel that I was comparing their profiles. But I wasn’t at all. I am pointing out discrepancies in the advice that they are telling me to their profile. And yes I know it may be apples to oranges but there should be congruency in the advice I believe. I want to know why they choose to respond to single profiles and their thought process on their own. Isn’t that the purpose of this forum?

For example and here is where I “pick” on you some. You tell me that you only have your shirtless pictures in private and that is simply not true. Two of the 5 pictures you show are shirtless including on of you laid out at the pool.

Again there is nothing I mean as derogatory. The forum here is to improve profiles. And I’m all for mentoring and learning. So I’m asking with a genuine desire to improve. Again in your situation you have 3 profiles with you and lady, then separately. I’m assuming her single profile gets the most response, with your couple profile next and your single one bringing up the rear. So again if you are successful in getting responses I want to learn.

This is the obvious statement of the day but It’s the initial response that is the biggest hurdle.

We really don't engage with single males that much, mainly because part of what gets me off is watching my husband get fucked. We have in the past, and we open up our profile when we travel. Honestly, when I travel alone, I've never had a problem finding a man at the bar to seduce, and I've seduced a few women while traveling as well. Hell, practically only go to teacher conferences now to seduce those young, doe-eyed, 26 year old teachers who won't shut up about their boyfriend while you're going down on them. They're funny. Watching them come from their first time with a woman is like looking at a newborn faun stand up after being born.

Anyway...

And when I have wanted an extra cock for a DP, I can usually reach out into an existing network of couples that I already trust. There is always a couple we know where the woman has her period, or wants to see a movie that the husband doesn't want to see. So she goes to the movie, her husband helps with the DP. Everybody wins.

I think what attracts me to a profile is professionalism. If you are a pilot, or a translator, or run a nuclear reactor, I'm going to be interested. I want to see what you are going to look like when we meet. If I have a "type" it's the lumberjack hipster type, followed by Adam Levine. Followed by Ryan Gosling, followed by my husband.

I don't think we have an attitude about males. It's more like - what's the point?

Single males are already in the lifestyle. It's called "dating." Why do you "need" to swing?

Women... we're judged by the men we sleep with. If you fuck to many guys, you're a whore. Want a threesome with two guys? You're a whore. Fuck a guy you just met? You're a whore. Take it up the ass? You're a whore. Meet a guy at a hotel bar, go upstairs and fuck him, then leave and go back downstairs to the bar and pick up another guy and fuck him (yeah, I've done that). You're a whore.

As a guy, want a threesome with two women? You're a guy. Want to fuck a girl you just met? You're a guy. Want to fuck a girl in the ass? You're a guy. Seduce two women at a hotel in the same night - you're a guy and sexual god.

Swinging allows single women the opportunity to have unique sexual encounters without being judged for their desires. Single men? Nobody judges you already so it's kind of like... why are you here. You can already go out and get crazy sex without being judged for it.

So I think that's kind of the issue with single men in general. There is really no reason for you to be here because you can already get 90% of what you want from an encounter on Tinder or OK Cupid.

So I guess to finally answer your question - would I eliminate a guy with a "dad bod?" Not necessarily if you are interesting and dress well. But you really need to bring your "A" game.

To the surprise of no one who has been paying attention, I am pro-goatee.

OP, here is the sad, sad reality: My profile is carefully crafted to discourage the attentions of most people while sifting for a very few. I do not want 20 emails a day, which manners will force me to answer.

You won't have that problem, so the rules are different for you.

I live in the Pacific Northwest. Pasty pretty much describes everyone up here who isn't blessed with abundant melanin, so descriptor not insult. Same with lean/not lean.

We are who we are, we look how we look. We are valuable for the unique individuals that we are.

Successful marketing is not about our worth.

Instead, it depends on a fair assessment of our assets, the size of our target market, and the requirements for market penetration (because cheap puns amuse me).

One commonality we have as singles is the need for certs, although for slightly different reasons. You can ignore that, but doing so cuts down your pool. It's the same with other choices. Do they widen or shrink your pool? A clever tagline does widen the pool, as does an interesting profile.

And now, if you'll excuse me, I have to send a slightly smutty email to a pasty white guy with a bit of a belly that I miss a lot. ;-)

Jake, what the ladies are saying to you is that a shirtless selfie photo says one of two things:

1) Take a look at this awesome body...this is what I'm working with, or

2) I am what I am, take it or leave it.

Like you, I don't have an athletic build. I'm 60 yrs old, and though I'm an attractive clean-cut guy, I look like I'm 60 and would do myself absolutely no marketing favors by having a main profile pic like yours.

I do have a couple of shirtless photos of me at the beach, but they are in private folders. I want to be transparent about what I look like without a suite, but that's not the way I want to introduce myself.

Comparing the advice these ladies are giving you against their own profiles is like me complaining that I was being asked to read for a part in a movie while my competitor, Alan Pacino, was not.

The ladies wouldn't have to upload a single photo and could write "twinkle, twinkle little star" for their narrative and they'd still get 25 or more emails per week.

It's not at all that the women have a holier than though attitude, it's a simple issue of math and DNA. Men have to do quite a bit more than do the women in this particular arena, and it's not because they are better than us, it's because they are graphically more rare.

Just my 2 cents.

Thank you Velma for your reply. I appreciate your time.

I worked on improving my picture quality, I’m just a good old country boy not into having pictures taken of me much. But I guess some people and couples judge solely on looks and if you’re in shape. Again I am what I am. And yes I have six kids so I’ve carried quite a bit of crap in my life, beach and otherwise .… lol

As for the goatee, I’ve had it and groWM it since it was just peach fuzz on my lip...many years ago. And I understand some people care about things like the body hair, again I am who I am and I think waxing is for the ladies, if anybody.

Now I can’t see your pictures, because you have blocked single males. Again as I said before we are the pariah apparently or not good enough (the holier than thou attitude) but perhaps it’s a self preservation for your sanity because you would get so many emails, I don’t know. As such I can’t see the way that you have your pictures and your husband laid out. I’m assuming he has a face picture, full body picture, and a chest picture. Perhaps you have the same. I noticed on your thumbnail that you both are on bikes and look like finishing a race and I’m assuming that you are fit and active. So quick question, do you automatically eliminate couples or guys simply on the fact that they have a “dad body” ? A type of holier than thou in a way. Or what attracts you to a person/profile? Do you ever consider a single male? If so what do they need to bring to the table?

Thanks again Velma for your time and thoughts.

PS: My childhood nickname was Scooby...lol.

Picture wise - I can think of a few things.

I've often said a guy needs 3 pictures - face, full body and naked chest. The chest should only be taken at the pool or the beach.

In your case, you do have a middle-age body which isn't bad, but isn't spectacular. You have the body type of that dad at the beach who's kids make him carry all of their shit.

I might also consider getting rid of some of the body hair. Grey body hair isn't attractive. Clip it, wax it, get rid of it.

Ditto the goatee. Why is it when guys turn 50 they insist on growing a grey goatee which makes them look even older than they are? Get rid of it.

I've said it before, but you are competing against not just every guy out there, but also my husband. Think about what you will bring to the table and work that angle.

Thank you GGMM for your advice and critique. And snarly responses are fine if they are warranted. My feelings will stay intact...lol.

I will work on tweaking and refining my profile as you suggested and hopefully Velma or others will drop a couple of pennies of thought also.

I will remove the discreet wording. The reason for that initial was/is that I would want discretion on everyone’s part. Perhaps that is a given and can go unstated.

I have been on since 2014, however it’s been more of a let’s see what is out there in the beginning. Then life as it sometimes does, happened so I was off for a few years. Now I have the opportunity to move to another location and as such I’m interested in opening back up conversations with interested people. One of the conundrums with certs as a single guy is that we are the pariah of the LS a lot of times. And I’m sure there is some holier than thou attitude bias among some couples, although I probably wouldn’t want to spend my time cultivating a relationship with those couples anyway. Also and perhaps this is personal and I know it’s a lifestyle website, but I like keeping things like meeting up between us. Who cares what couple123 said, what matters is our connection. And seriously who has ever posted a negative cert?

I guess I used the word drama to mirror what I see in most couples profiles. Seems to be the word de jour.

As for the garden variety issues. I will work on the tag line and other suggestions. I will work on improving my pasty farmers tan...lol. Do you even look at peoples tag lines? Do they make you look at a profile because they are so awesome? If so, what is some wording that would catch your attention. And in terms of the body of the profile what are you looking for? You yourself mentioned what you wouldn’t do, but say I shouldn’t?

As for the picture I did have on with a shirt on years ago, was just trying something different. But I see your point. And I’m not ashamed, my body is what it is. And after 50 years I’m glad it’s holding up at all..lol.

You mentioned in your profile that you are attracted to all body types and that personality and chemistry are key, yet the statements about me being pasty and put a shirt on because I’m not “lean” seems disingenuous at best. From my front porch it appears that you would judge and eliminate me solely on that. And perhaps that is the need for the shirt...lol. You also in your profile have a topless picture? Same but different?? I’m a guy who likes some mystery and anticipation. I would rather see you in jeans and a T-shirt. In fact I wouldn’t mind if we didn’t share “body parts” until we meet.
And why did you choose a photo of your feet? I’m asking these questions because I’m trying to understand the mindset of others with their profile.

And feel free to knock my grammar...lol.

Again thank you for your time and advice.

Hi, jakeforfun. I apologize in advance for the snarly tone I'll probably use. I am experiencing my first silent moment in far too many hours and I currently hate everything. However, you aren't a member of my family, so it might be okay.

Your profile needs work, but the biggest issue is that there are a number of red flags.

When I see an offer of discreet weekday opportunities, I immediately assume the guy is married and cheating. So will most others and that will definitely cut down on your possible matches. I know your profile says divorced, but your language is coded for cheating. I suggest not mentioning discretion or daytime playtme.

You have been a member since 2014 and don't have a single cert. Big red flag that suggests this is a fantasy rather than a reality for you.

You use the word drama, which is not only an indicator that you might be a source of that, the way you frame it suggests couples might be on shaky ground or vulnerable in some way. You might not mean anything of the sort, but the implication is there and it won't go over well.

As for garden variety issues, your tagline is uninviting, you mention your race twice (dude, you're pasty, so even once is unnecessary), you mention your moving date twice when you needn't at all (in the event an opportunity comes up, schedule it for after 5/21). Don't mention what you won't do. If someone hands you a flogger, just hand it back with a polite thanks, no thanks. Same with peeing, without the handing back.

Tell me something about yourself. What are things that make you unique? It doesn't have to be extensive, but you are more than is appearing here. Glimpses of that unique individual are what sells you as an option.

Put on a shirt. Velma gives great advice on photos. Listen to her and do what she says, if she shows up. In the meantime, though? I would be saying it anyway, because the naked torso shot is a tired cliche, but unless you start working out more, shirts are your friends in photos.

I'm not trying to body shame you. Your body is your body and won't get in the way of finding playmates, but half naked selfies require a leaner look to be effective.

You have some issues with grammar and word choice, but I'd like to see more and different content before picking that apart.

Good luck.

Hope everyone is having a great fun evening. As you can tell since I’m writing asking for advice on my profile, instead of going out, I’m not having much luck..lol

Would love some feedback.

Thank you in advance for your time and critique.