@Ymichael
This is a question for Dan Savage of the podcast SavageLove. He's actually talked about this in previous podcasts, and you can always call it in, and he may actually answer it in a subsequent podcast. If you have a Tesla you can access it in your car or other places where podcasts are found.
I highly recommend listening to it for these types of relationships.
Hollyblue- I didn't appreciate the cuck relationship I had with her because I didn't have a cuck relationship with her.
She had one with me, without my approval, but I did not have one with her.
Goodenuff- I do not have a distorted view. 90% of the people on here have rejected more people than I will ever meet in a lifetime, forget about play with.
In one discussion, someone told me that it was not that easy for them to find playmates. They usually have to meet, and reject 5 out of 6 people. I haven't even met one person in the three years I have been on here. Statistically speaking, I will only meet one person from this site in my lifetime. And it will be a rejection.
That puts me in a class way below all of you.
Goodgolly- I value your opinions, even when I disagree with them. You have very educated, well thought out, experienced opinions.
Esperanza- I am not saying that she didn't give me what I wanted. If I had met her and said what I wanted and she said no, I would not have a complaint.
Ok, I lol'd at the past few responses.
That was great.. us we enjoy fun swingers.. Y, he comes to SLS for the continue abuse of his ridiculous questions!
Really, it just seems like you never appreciated the cuck relationship that you had with her.
Yes, I wish he and a number of others I have blocked would just go away/ They take away from the Forums.
maybe if he wasn't such a whiny bitch he would have a better chance of meeting people...
"If I was like everyone else on here who meets more potential playmates then they would ever have time for..."
I think you have a distorted view of everyone else on here.
"She kept talking about it, promising, and even chose people to join us."
Everything I needed to know, I learned from "Peanuts." Apparently the lesson of Lucy and the football wasn't one you managed to absorb.
We're not arguing, not on a personal level, but your notion of 'I didn't get what I want even though SHE PROMISED, so is it abuse?' is so fucking wrong headed and ridiculous that I'm driven to dismantle it.
You are trying to assert that NOT giving you sex the way you want is abuse. Do you even hear yourself???
Goodgolly- I have no idea why you are treating this like we are arguing. It is just a question.
As for why I stayed for so long, she is still the only swinger I have ever known. 20 years later. I stayed because it was the closest I ever got to a threesome. She kept talking about it, promising, and even chose people to join us. If I was like everyone else on here who meets more potential playmates then they would ever have time for, I wouldn't have stayed for so long.
"...you are giving me advice on a relationship that I ended 20 years ago."
No, I'm not. Not only am I aware that this is a long ago relationship, I'm entirely uninterested in it except as the saucer that holds your stupid.
"I am only asking when does it become abuse?"
This is the part I'm interested in, because it's a ridiculous lens with which to view relationships. It never becomes abuse. We choose, each and every day, to stay in a relationship or leave. If you choose to stay in a relationship that doesn't meet your needs, it's not abuse, regardless of the nature of the needs not being met.
"Men will abuse women by telling them that they love them and things will get better as soon as some event occurs. "
That's not abuse either. People tell self-serving lies all the time and sometimes other people believe them. We choose, each and every day, to stay in a relationship or leave. Having our own reasons for staying, even if it's general spinelessness or forlorn hope, doesn't mean we're abused by the lies we want to believe or the person telling them.
"Why can't a woman be abusive if she promises a threesome ,just to keep the guy around, but has no intention of ever doing a threesome with him?"
You seem to want so, so badly for this to be abuse and it just isn't. You stayed in an unsatisfying relationship for your own reasons. You didn't have to. No shackles, no chains, no indentured servitude, no abuse. Just you, choosing day after day to stay in a relationship that didn't give you something you wanted.
Stop trying to offload the responsibility for that onto the other person.
Goodgolly- you are giving me advice on a relationship that I ended 20 years ago.
I am only asking when does it become abuse?
Men will abuse women by telling them that they love them and things will get better as soon as some event occurs.
Why can't a woman be abusive if she promises a threesome ,just to keep the guy around, but has no intention of ever doing a threesome with him?
"...so, are you saying it can't ever be abusive?"
That's exactly what I'm saying. Relationships are neither indentured servitude nor chattel slavery. Someone makes decisions about what you can and cannot do with your body? If you don't like it, end the fucking relationship.
"Or, how would you tell it was abusive? My question is, where do you draw that line?"
I'll go back to where I started, by saying "Oh, for fuck's sake. It's never fucking abusive." Because it's no different than telling you that to be in a relationship with me you have to wear a clown nose 24/7. Don't like the terms? You're not wearing chains nor are you bolted to the floor. Leave. Abuse isn't when you are too indecisive to leave a relationship that doesn't work for you. If you're spineless? That's on you and it isn't abuse.
"I also think if you know you want a guy that will sit at home while you play, you know you will never include him with your play or let him play solo, that you should say that from the beginning and not keep talking about including him."
I don't know if it's the whining or the stupidity in this that I find more annoying. It's like you think people actually have a plan in their heads instead of just a swirl of baggage, self deception, and bullshit. Plus, eh, NOBODY LETS YOU DO ANYTHING. You negotiate things in relationships and figure out your deal breakers. And if you don't end up with agreements that serve your needs, you either leave the relationship or you accept that it's your own fucking fault every single day that you didn't get what you needed or wanted, because no one is the fucking boss of you except you and you have decided to live without what you want and/or need.
Goodgolly- so, are you saying it can't ever be abusive? Or, how would you tell it was abusive?
My question is, where do you draw that line?
I also think if you know you want a guy that will sit at home while you play, you know you will never include him with your play or let him play solo, that you should say that from the beginning and not keep talking about including him.
I'm just guessing you are talking to the OP, because I got tired of his shit and blocked him. he doesn't accept anyone's answers unless they agree with him
"But I find being able to do everything with everybody, except one guy, odd. "
"Being able" is a phrase that suggests you know why someone does something. I prefer to think about people's behavior without speculating on the cause and without considering their explanations for it, both of which are guesses at best.
She didn't want to have multi-partner sex with you. Was that acceptable, yes or no?
She wanted to have sex, including multi-partner sex, with others. Was that acceptable, yes or no?
Answer those two questions, stay away from speculating about reasons or whether it's odd, and, et voila, you actually have agency and clarity.
While I agree you should leave the relationship rather than trying to change the other person, which is what I did, don't you find it odd that she was so comfortable with the lifestyle and would do anything with anybody, except me? I'm the only guy in town that she is not ready to have a threesome with?
I fully understand how a woman could enjoy a MFM, or her husband watching her with another guy but can't do a FMF or watch her husband with another woman. But I find being able to do everything with everybody, except one guy, odd.
I can even understand leaving the lifestyle when you meet a certain guy.
But I can not understand thinking your boyfriend won't mind sitting at home doing the knitting while you are out having fun.
Oh, for fuck's sake. Never. That's when "not ready" becomes abuse.
If someone says no and means no - the subject doesn't matter - and you really don't like it and don't want to accept the no, leave the fucking relationship.
You're not being abused.
You're just coming face to face with the limits of someone else.
And no weaseling. "Not ready" is no. In this moment, are you okay with that no? No? Then end the relationship.
same
We blocked his whiny ass also along with many others that take away from what could be good discussions on the Forums.
Just wondering why is "Y" always having issues with swinging... did he ever think its HIM..
No he cant see this is we blocked him last year with all his whining about swinging.. never.. ever anything positive! SAD!
