What is a union

As a person who has run 1000+ employee companies, taken companies public, I actually like unions. I preferred the collective bargaining aspect. I guess I am in the UPS mindset. Sure, my wages went up, but so did moral, and my cost to maintain that relationship with the employees went way the fuck down.

I think people who are anti union are ignorant of the situation. They are not really anti union, they are anti the agreements that that management and the union put together. That is a massive difference. It takes two to sign the deal.

Your last statement I am in full agreement with. The most important thing is to get most of the money out of politics.

My wife is actually a public sector employee. She works for a top 5 university and is represented by the Teamsters.

My experience with unions is both in the public and private sector. I don't see a lot of difference between the two. There are financial realities in all business, public or private, and sometimes people make shitty decisions,

In my youth, I led an anti-union organizing campaign. Totally grass roots. Pretty much only me. The organizing campaign lost, and the company (an office of a major insurance company) remained non-union until it was closed a couple of years later.

I was a management adviser at a non-profit during an organizing campaign that was successful.

And I have been a union member at a couple of public educational institutions at different levels.

What I see from all of these different windows is that while the salary and benefits are good, that is not the primary reason that people agitate to form a union.

The non-profit is a great example. The company provides social services, almost exclusively government contracts at the federal, state, and local levels. While the company was innovative, they were a casualty of their own success.

They grew from 30 offices to about 100 in the span of 2-3 years. They didn't have the structure in place to train staff, especially management staff.

The employees organized not because they wanted an extra vacation day or another buck an hour, but because there were a bunch of shitty supervisors out in the field doing shitty things.

As I said, I was a senior adviser to the top person, and told her this, but no one would listen. The staff wanted to be treated with respect, but management was not responsive, and the campaign was successful.

The company later got caught up in a major scandal for falsifying federal government reports, and lost a bunch of contracts, but they still exist in a smaller form.

Not a Regan fan though he had a few funny lines. yea my spelling sucks, always has and always will oh well if that is my major sin then I guess I am going to hell.

O.k. we can go back to the guilds of the 1300's but how will that help us with modern issues? are you saying that we should go back to apprentices living with the master craftsmen they study under. The modern unions (from lets say the late 1800's forward for argument sake) is what I am basing my view on.

I stand corrected as far as your experience. Since you are a cross over do you agree or disagree that a proper union needs to consider both the members gains and the companies interest or do you feel unions should say screw the company.

yes 6% nationally but in some areas the work share is growing (last I checked we have a 30-35% over hear in great part due to evolving)

You did not clarify if you were public or private sector but you did mention your wife is private sector. Do you feel that there is a difference between the 2? IMO the public sector is the ankor around the neck of all union members. One great example locally here is the teachers union in one school district that lobbied very heavy for the school board to grant a multi million dollar contract non union. They were very vocal that they wanted this because they had a contract coming up the following year. the contract was granted non union and 3 weeks before school started back up the non union companies were fired because they were 3 months behind schedule. A union company took over and finished the job in a little over a month and were under budget.

As for politicians not being pro labor for the most part we are in full agreement. There are a few out there on both sides of the isle but they are far and few between. Here in PA there are actually a hand full of Pro labor Republicans at the state level unfortunately there are many more far right that drowned them out.

to bad there is not a way to get all pac money out of politics

Well, you certainly do make a lot of assumptions about me.

I am a former union member (I'm management now). In my past, I have led both pro and anti- union campaigns.

And my wife is a current union construction worker (journeyman painter).

So, you see, my information is not second hand, but the product of dealing with unions from both the member and management side for much longer than you have.

But I digress. Let's look at a few of your statements...

"Yea I have no clue."

Correct.

"20 yr member and 4th generation union with the prior 3 generations all at one time being officers in their respective unions."

And that contributes to your understanding how? Lots of people do lots of things and don't learn anything from them. You seem to be one of them.

"I know about the start with the 40 hr work week better working conditions child labor ect. The pinkerton war and the california fruit pickers."

That is certainly not even close to the start of unions. Start with craft guilds and work your way forward.

"The major start of the decline of unions when dear Ronnie fired the air traffic controllers and the afl/cio and the other unions turned their backs thinking they were to powerful to decline."

Reagan did everything he could to destroy your standard of living and yet you still think he is a saint. What did I say above about learning?

Unions have been evolving to survive especially in the past decade. Some unions and their members still think it is the good old days and are fighting change but many are changing to better serve their members and the companies they provide the manpower for. Many are realizing that you need both sides to succeed.

"The private sector unions are leading the charge."

LOL. Six percent of the workforce and you are leading the charge...

"The public sector however tends to remain bloated and hanging onto the old ways which tends to be very inefficient and hurts the companies they work for (read government)."

The public sector unions are the ones holding the line against the entire mechanism of government that has been turned against them by your Sainted Ronnie and his minions.

"So before you start to school me on what a union is ask yourself what can your second hand information and outside view teach someone that is currently an active union member that is involved in not only the job site side but also offers their time free of charge to work on the union office side for 2 decades with a family history that goes back to the 1920's."

I think we covered this previously.

"I know where the unions came from and I know where they want to go."

We also covered the first part of this statement, and the last part, you know where you think they should go, but a lot of people disagree with you.

"Several on here want the federal government to evolve to offer more benifits (read wealfair like single payer and "free" education). The unions are allready evolving to more efficiently serve their members and the companies especially in the private sector offering benifits at reasonable costs well below the national average."

First, learn how to spell. I'm glad your union has gotten you good benefits. That is one of the things they are there for.

"Yet another example of the private sector doing things more cost effective than the bloated government can."

Medicare is more efficient than any health plan ever devised. Three percent administrative fee. Again with the Reagan quotes.

"Heck some of the private sector are supporting labor friendly republicians over dems that want to pile more tax burdens on the American public. Now if only we could get more REAL labor friendly politicians in office and get rid of the lip service ones that only want to take union members pac money at fund raising time."

There is no such thing as a labor friendly Republican. And few labor friendly Democrats.

Quit drinking the Kool-Aid and think for yourself. And take a spelling class.

Phoenix sounds great we could have business agents set up our play dates lol. Got to love the reasoning behind a political section on a swingers site. Maybe we should revert to talking about the politics of dancing in this section

What does this have to do with sexual play and swinging?? Have I missed a Swinger's Union that has formed???

Yea I have no clue. 20 yr member and 4th generation union with the prior 3 generations all at one time being officers in their respective unions.

I know about the start with the 40 hr work week better working conditions child labor ect. The pinkerton war and the california fruit pickers. The major start of the decline of unions when dear Ronnie fired the air traffic controllers and the afl/cio and the other unions turned their backs thinking they were to powerful to decline.

Unions have been evolving to survive especially in the past decade. Some unions and their members still think it is the good old days and are fighting change but many are changing to better serve their members and the companies they provide the manpower for. Many are realizing that you need both sides to succeed.

The private sector unions are leading the charge. The public sector however tends to remain bloated and hanging onto the old ways which tends to be very inefficient and hurts the companies they work for (read government).

So before you start to school me on what a union is ask yourself what can your second hand information and outside view teach someone that is currently an active union member that is involved in not only the job site side but also offers their time free of charge to work on the union office side for 2 decades with a family history that goes back to the 1920's. I know where the unions came from and I know where they want to go.

Several on here want the federal government to evolve to offer more benifits (read wealfair like single payer and "free" education). The unions are allready evolving to more efficiently serve their members and the companies especially in the private sector offering benifits at reasonable costs well below the national average.

Yet another example of the private sector doing things more cost effective than the bloated government can. Heck some of the private sector are supporting labor friendly republicians over dems that want to pile more tax burdens on the American public. Now if only we could get more REAL labor friendly politicians in office and get rid of the lip service ones that only want to take union members pac money at fund raising time.

You really don't have any idea of the history of unions.

I don't have time to get into it right now, but I'll try to get to it this weekend...

I cluttered up some other threads with my pro union point of view and wanted to make some more points but figured I should not stear those discussions further off topic so here it goes

There are 2 catigories of union. Public sector and private sector. Many in the private sector union have the same view of public sector that many think about all unions. We feel that they protect the lesser employees and incourage waste.

In the private sector and especially in the construction end where I work we believe in raising and encouraging the weaker worker to improve themself and raising their performance to earn our money and bennies. Waste is not accepted freely in the construction unions. Most do not have sick days and vacation pay. Construction union members job is to work themself out of a job then move on to the next project. A few of us get lucky enough to get on steady with a company but most finish a job then calll the hall to get a new asignment.

We are paid well and have good benifits thanks to collective bargining but we constantly train then preform on the job to earn that. There is little to no benifit given to seniority so we have to prove our self every day.

Every union should get the best pay and bennies for their members but one thing that unions as a whole need to abandon is seniority and go to merit based. This imo would go a long way to improving the publics view of unions.

Next time you hear about an evil union please remember we are not all overbloated organization full of lazy fools. More private sector unions every year are supporting merit based