Social security

What does WROL mean?

Is the possibility that your beliefs are founded in utter bullshit being proven to you getting to you
No, it's not , and, they haven't. I expect part of our difference is in world view. I've actually seen the failures of the fragile system cost people their lives. So, I am a little bit jaded.. however, because of that, I'm just a little more prepared than the next guy, if tragedy happens. If I wanted to stretch my money as far as possible... I could sell my house & property, sell a couple of toys & live a fiscally conservative life until I was 62, on the money. There is enough in my 401K to maintain that same level of financial stability for 30 +/- years. So, technically, I could quit work today... Now, I'm not going to do that... I've worked hard to get ahead of the curve... And every day after today is that much more insurance I have against the unknown. Now, if you want to talk about WROL scenarios... We can pick that up in a separate thread.

@Marion

I have not said it has. I stated it will. The probability of needing external support systems is very high. At that moment, you realize that all the puffery, machismo bullshit that you have been espousing is gone. At that moment, you realize how you are reliant on others and the systems in place. You know, the systems that you are complaining about.

I'm not sure what about this conversation has led you to believe that my belief structure has been challenged in any way, but Okie dokie! As for my "come to Jesus" moment.... Well... We all get those... Yours will probably be if/when those government programs your banking on to save your ass, fail miserably (Katrina, Maui, North Texas blizzard, ect) and you have to "make due".

@Marion

Aww . . .

Is the possibility that your beliefs are founded in utter bullshit being proven to you getting to you?

It's ok. As TBR often opines about, how much he doesn't know. It takes a while to realize that there is a fuck ton that you do not know. People tend to only get narrower in their knowledge, thus widening the gap of what they don't know. I still stand by the statement, that you can have these beliefs, and the minute that something happens to you, where you need the safety net of the rest of the world, your belief system will change. You can call that a come to jesus moment. :)

@A.E.: your getting awfully vested in a side topic, that effects you in no way shape or form. As for the hypothetical scenarios you have posed, I reckon I'd just make do... You try to cover my very detailed and pointed examples with a very wide paint brush dismissal. Such is typical for a West Coast liberal. You don't like my politics,... Ok.... You don't like my conservation habits.... Ok..... You don't like the way I make my points..... Ok... I'm fine with all that... You do you boo... I have no opinion on your opinions... Too bad you can't say the same..

@Marion

How is the joke on me when I pegged you for what you are? That statement makes no sense. You speak in cliches. You have no idea what it means, you just repeat it because you heard it a hundred times. Try deciphering what was said. You might enlighten yourself.

Libertarianism is bullshit. What you call self-reliant. . . rofl! Let's use your own statements to prove how fucked up libertarian concepts are.

You mentioned hunting. You mentioned all the deer that you shoot. More than the legal limit. You do that in the form of 'self-reliance.' Congrats, so do 40 other people right next to you now. What happens when they act self-reliant? What happens to the deer this season or next season? Do you suddenly go, hey assholes, there is a legal limit you went over it? Aren't you doing the same? Libertarian beliefs are all self-centered, I got mine, fuck you you are not getting yours and I am going to tear down the system that allowed me to get mine to make sure you don't get yours.

You are NOT self-reliant. You may think you are, but you are not. You rely on the government for so much. Even the unabomber, the person who hated the government, who lived in a shack and got pissed off when his cost of living went over $1 a day was reliant on the government. Don't think so? He used the US Post Office. You are using roads that, in essence, I paid towards. Sure, I may have paid 1.3 x 10^-12 towards the construction, but the point is that the roads you use you didn't pay for. The water you drink, you didn't pay for. All of these things around you are shared expenses and therefore shared benefits.

Now let's put this out there as well. Libertarians freak out with this hypothetical. You were just in a car accident. You are paralyzed from the waist down.

Choose if you have health insurance or not :) If you don't, society pays for your hospital stay.

Are you still self-reliant in that wheelchair? Are you getting GOVERNMENTAL assistance? Before you say no, make sure that you do not get a handicap placard for parking. Oh wait, are you going to complain that there are no ramps for you to go to the place you want to? Are you going to complain that there are no toilets for you to shit in because you can't get the wheelchair in? Damn . . . don't sound self-reliant now.

Here is a real-life example for you. This is what really solidified my beliefs about libertarians. We had a good friend who lived a couple of miles away. He came from the NE area, and had strong libertarian beliefs. His house was worth about 4mm. He had made money building and flipping houses. He had a private plane, a 4 seater, prop plane. He summered back in NE. He left Santa Barbara with his wife, two kids, dog to fly to NE. He made it about 70 miles from Santa Barbara and crashed. His wife and one kid died. His belief system changed. Sure, he still has some kick ass drive, sure he has focused on raising that last child, but he realized that he needs others to help him achieve his goals. Without all the help from doctors, and therapists (physical and mental) he could not achieve his goals.

It's ok to keep thinking that you are Rambo or some person who needs no one else. Eventually, something will happen where you realize that you are reliant on others and a system that you claim to despise.

@EA: jokes on you. I know what the libertarian concepts are & agree with them. What you call "self centered and narcissistic" I consider to mean "self reliant and held accountable". You fail to understand my basic nature. But I'll give you an example, to clear things up. Both of my part time gigs require me to cary narcan. I have it in my truck, and on my belts at work*. I've ran several O.D. calls over the last few years. I've never narcaned a single person. Because that medicine on my belt is for me & my coworkers. Fuck the junkie.... I'll let EMS deal with him, if they get here on time. Let that burn in real good, and see if it clears anything up about my political beliefs.

@Marion

No. You are arguing against someone who reads what you write. Someone whose only means of trying to understand what you are portraying is what you write. You are also learning that your beliefs are not realistic and trying to defend your wishes. It's okay, you will come around to the realization that the libertarian concept is actually the greediest, self-centered, almost narcissistic, belief system there is.

There was a reason why I pointed out the idiotic cliche about averages. You know, almost half of these are _____.

Here, let me fuck with your head. If your doctor didn't graduate in the top 10% of his/her class, chances are the doctor was a B or C student.

Any old Yairi’s . I don’t have any high end guitars . When I go International I go to a music store spend maybe 300 .00
on a Yamaha have it set up play a few gigs get everyone to sign it and auction it off . I do have an old gold top Les Paul , an old Epiphone Casino made in Kalamazoo and an old Fender Coronado . I am craving an Alvarez Yairi. Monte Montgomery sig.

Well done again Marion.. for us heading down to a major guitar high end broker today. time to sell/ consignment some of our guitars..

Now our Guns Hmm think I will keep those including my original on duty Model SW 29 still in mint condition with some mild holster wear, original box, ss model 36 chiefs special, sig 229 40 cal .. oops better stop all mine went overboard in a boating accident!

Oh wait sorry off topic.. keeping all for now!

@EA:. I'm arguing with a shadow.. you cherry pick your argument and misrepresent mine. Of course, that's the nature of people.

@Marion

"@E.A.: I have found out dividing line. I do want our country ran like a business. I'm a stockholder in that business & I want it stronger and better than the competition."

Last I checked . . . Alabama is part of our country. Last I checked your city is Alabama.

Perhaps you meant to say something different? You want the FEDERAL government run like a business but then what do you want for the state or local?

Again, if you think this through, I think you will not even want that. Alabama does NOT have the GDP to survive by itself. It is a big sucker on the tit of the federal government.

#EA: no, but keep your argument within the confines of the topic. If you want to discuss the 10th amendment, I'd be happy to do so.

@Marion

So wait . . .

Do you want the FEDERAL government to run like a business, but the state and local governments run differently? I am confused.

Military & police: the military is the security of the nation, of course we'd stop being the world police. Id defund NATO & the WHO. Then, there's the police... Last time I checked, they are payed by the county/city/state. Unless you mean the CIATFBIRS... Who can all fuck right off..

I'll try to address those line by line. Might take a few posts, since I'll have to reference back a couple of times. 1: I'd Defund NASA on day 1. (See the iron mountain report, and operation paperclip) 2: id institute the death penalty for anyone caught with distribution weight of narcotics, after I legalized and taxed marijuana. 3: the prison system would be converted to a work for free road building system. (BTW, the interstates were built for the military, not us). Lemme go see what I didn't address.

@Marion

In all sincerity, I believe that if you were to spend any time thinking in depth about the government as a business concept, you would be against it. As you stated, you are a shareholder in the business, so let's use that line as a basis. As a shareholder, the operators have a fiduciary responsibility to the shareholder, correct? The business model, aka, capitalism, is to maximize profits, correct?

Here is what you just did.

1. You got rid of the military. That shit doesn't make money. Bye bye. As a shareholder, I do not want 1/2 of discretionary spending to go there. Perhaps we can outsource to other countries at a much cheaper price.
2. You can keep SS. It takes in what it spends.
3. You can get rid of prisons. Everyone is killed for any offense. It is not profitable for the business to pay for prison for a Jan 6 person. It is not profitable to pay for prison for a person who stole a pack of gum.
4. You can get rid of the police. Well, unless you want them to take the drugs that they get from the dealers and sell it themselves.
5. You can get rid of NASA, of course, unless you want to be in the business of charging for launches and such. No more Voyagers or James Webb or Hubble.
6. I ain't sending any money to Hamilton. I ain't sending any money to any metro's in Bama other than Birmingham and Mobile, well, ok maybe Huntsville. To interconnect those cities, I will put in TWO lane roads. Traffic sounds like a YOU problem, not a Government problem. I don't care if it takes you 3 times longer to get there, I have maximized my profits.

I can go on and on.

All the things that you like, more than likely will go away.

This is why I believe that if you really think about it, you would not want the government to run like a business.

Where I think we agree, is that we want the government to be efficient in their spending. Where I believe we would argue is where that line is. I feel that you would probably want it closer to perfect than I do. I think that might be an age issue :) As you get older, imo, you tend to realize how nuanced things really are and striving for perfection sounds great on paper, but the reality is that it is not feasible.

@Rlam

"I never said one thing about the size of the child/fetus being aborted!!! It is the very early stages of human life with it's own DNA. For you to make the INSANE comment that pro-life people fight for the fetus due to some irrelevant "numbers game" is beyond stupid. I truly can not wrap my head around how back-assward your mind works."

Uhh . . .

I said RELIGION. Religions want the numbers game. How dare there be more Muslims than Christians!

See, for a person who claims to be religious, you really have no clue of the history of religion and how it has morphed over the centuries. Here, go check this book out of a library and READ IT. books.google. com/books/about/Contraception.html?id=S-fBxgQoYQ0C Read why Pope Sixtus V went after contraception. Read this book - https://academic.oup. com/book/32983/chapter-abstract/279405528?redirectedFrom=fulltext Prior to Sixtus V the church was OK with abortion and contraception.

So before you keep saying that you can't wrap your head around this . . . honestly, that sounds like a YOU problem, not a ME problem. I am not making up shit, I am just citing history.

side note T-bills are guaranteed because they are based on expectations of rising interest rates. So.... The government borrows from your retirement, and invests it in a loan that makes money by charging you more money, then investing the "profit" in whatever project they think needs funding. Short explanation.. your still paying for the project. Either by direct contribution or tax revenue generated by inflation. The government is just shuffling the deck while you pay to watch.

@RK: I'm on track to retire comfortably, w/wo SS either way. Of course, if it's available, I'll certainly make use of it. Id be in better shape, if not for a crippling GunBroker addiction. I got into the NFA game a few years ago, and have spent way too much!

If you don't like abortion, don't have one...

If you don't like same sex marriage, don't marry someone of the same sex...

If you don't like transgender people, don't become one.

Jesus, when did conservatives get so thin skinned.

Every day it us some outrage.

Wow amazing how people cant think for themselves. we bought and sold 7 homes about every seven years making at least double and triple on every home we had, then we bought acreage and sold that at double what we paid for it.. as far as retirement both are in the six figures and learned lessons years ago about investing wisely, saving wisely and paying off all bills as they come along!

Yes I would say we are living the good life we made and earned now traveling the world and dont depend on anyone or anything!

Kudos again Marion!

@E.A.: I have found out dividing line. I do want our country ran like a business. I'm a stockholder in that business & I want it stronger and better than the competition. Maybe my life has been a little different than yours, so I have had different thoughts. Your house lost 45% of it's value in the housing crash. I bought mine at the rock bottom, then refinanced during the Trump administration at 2.75% locked for 15 years. (Only other thing he ever did for me). As of right now I could sell my house for 3X what I paid for it. Actually, I should... The housing market bubble is about to burst again, but I like my house. Anyway, our difference of OPINION about the system is based on the "facts" the parties feed us. The only difference is, I've figured out they both hate us. They both want to kill us. And they are two wings of the same shitty bird.

EA: There is no way Im going to waste my time responding to ALL of your incredibly moronic comments. I am neither arrogant enough, or naive enough to think Im going to change your narcissistic mind on any topic.

I will, however, point out just how ignorant you are AGAIN!!

I never said one thing about the size of the child/fetus being aborted!!! It is the very early stages of human life with it's own DNA. For you to make the INSANE comment that pro-life people fight for the fetus due to some irrelevant "numbers game" is beyond stupid. I truly can not wrap my head around how back-assward your mind works.