"Properly requesting an absentee ballot should be permitted provided they have a valid ID proving eligibility and with a valid reason for not being able to vote in person."
Pssst... 34 states allow absentee voting without providing a reason, and without having to show an ID to anyone. And they did before COVID hit.
Pathetic.
"@D, are you now stating that all Voting should be done in person? No more absentee ballots?"
No, what he is saying is that absentee is okay as long as it is the military, the elderly, traveling business men, and others likely to vote Republican.
As soon as we make it easier for the working poor to vote, or others that are likely to vote Democrat... then no-go. Those people need to go stand in line for hours and hours mid-day on a work-day, or well.... i guess they just won't be able to vote.
"unsolicited ballots allows fraud to occur at nearly every level."
And yet, when pressed to provide evidence that this fraud is widespread, you provided a link to a database with 2000 cases over the last 20 years, the VAST majority of which involved candidates or election officials that would not be stopped by in-person voting or voter id laws.
It is like saying wide-spread concealed carry of guns would allow every argument to turn into shoot out at the OK corral... and yet, when states allow concealed carry, there is no measurable change in the murder rate.... because people murder people they know, not random strangers...
And politicians and election officials may, on occasion, commit election fraud, but there is no evidence that a significant number of voters commit fraud.
It is all bullshit to make it harder for the working poor to vote, and you know it. Several members of the CONservative party have openly admitted it. It is pure voter suppression, nothing more.
The Kool Aid bowl is in need of a refill. Some people have been freely helping themselves.
I can see you are uncomfortable with the question...
Turn off CNN, you won't have these problems.
How many Democratic voters in the Klan these days? They're all Trump supporters as far as we can tell.
"are you now stating that all Voting should be done in person? No more absentee ballots?"
That's not what I said. I said mass mailing of unsolicited ballots allows fraud to occur at nearly every level. Properly requesting an absentee ballot should be permitted provided they have a valid ID proving eligibility and with a valid reason for not being able to vote in person. This is the opposite of voting by mail, which has already had numerous incidents of ballots being sent to the wrong addresses, people receiving numerous ballots to one person and many ballots simply vanishing. It's really silly to pretend this is about anything other than rigging the election to get rid of the President. The left has always operated by the end justifies the means and try to un-fuckle it later or just deny that it happened.
The KKK is a prime example. Most minorities have no idea that the Klan was perpetuated by the Democrats until a few years ago. Now they have other racist quasi-militant operations to do their bidding. There's literally nothing they won't use, just ask Jeff Epstein.
As long as everyone votes Trump. Who fucking cares how many times you vote.
“ I think you are missing the point.”
No I’m not. The people up in arms about mail in voting are implying that there will be widespread impersonation voting if voting by mail. A rebuttal to this argument is not to look at the big fish in the corner. They’re not taking about the big fish.
@D, are you now stating that all Voting should be done in person? No more absentee ballots?
brennancenter/sites/default/files/analysis/Briefing_Memo_Debunking_Voter_Fraud_Myth. pdf
I think you are missing the point.
The GOP narrative has ALWAYS been on individual voter fraud. It is a distractionary tactic.
This is a little old. wikipedia. org/wiki/Hacking_Democracy - Good movie.
IIRC back even further, there have been allegations of fraud by the IBMs of the world.
The powers that be don't give a fuck if you vote twice. The powers that be give a fuck that they can control the results.
" found zero successful prosecutions for impersonation fraud in five states from 2012-2016.”
I have no idea where you found this but it's simply not true. Heritage dot org lists 1296 proven cases of voter fraud, many prosecutions of which having hundreds of instances and ballots, with 1,119 convictions. Nearly all of the cases involved mailed ballots, either fraudulently filling out someone elses ballots or simply counting all of the mailed ballots for the chosen candidate.
We played out the whole "zero evidence of fraud" which evolved into "convictions involving massive wide-scale all-encompassing voter fraud which changed an election" horseshit on another thread, you may use your own google machine. Having wide-scale unsolicited mailed ballots to all registered voters, living and dead, invites fraud. Some localities never remove names from their rolls as a general rule, it would take a massive effort and laws mandating the methodology to clean up the voter registrations, or just swallow it, accept there will be fraud and hope that people that think like you get to do the counting.
Right thinking people would not cast aside their election process that has worked for centuries in an attempt to get rid of a President they did not like. It's fucking ridiculous.
“ It's so funny reading these responses. You can tell who works in the nerd industry and who doesn't.
Why?
Because you guys are worried about onesies and twosies.
No one is thinking scale.
No one is thinking past the person voting.”
It has no bearing what industry you’re in. The GOP’s narrative is that this is how voter fraud is taking place or is going to occur. The people controlling the narrative know there is no fraud occurring. But they’ve sown the seed. They have their followers believing them and trying to sow the seed someplace further on. There are plenty of very intelligent people over a broad spectrum of industries that believe this narrative.
It's so funny reading these responses. You can tell who works in the nerd industry and who doesn't.
Why?
Because you guys are worried about onesies and twosies.
No one is thinking scale.
No one is thinking past the person voting.
Follow the path of the ballot. Why would you worry about one ballot when you want to manipulate thousands?
Start looking at machines and people up the chain.
“Two studies done at Arizona State University, one in 2012 and another in 2016, found similarly negligible rates of impersonation fraud. The project found 10 cases of voter impersonation fraud nationwide from 2000-2012. The follow-up study, which looked for fraud specifically in states where politicians have argued that fraud is a pernicious problem, found zero successful prosecutions for impersonation fraud in five states from 2012-2016.”
“ A study published by a Columbia University political scientist tracked incidence rates for voter fraud for two years, and found that the rare fraud that was reported generally could be traced to “false claims by the loser of a close race, mischief and administrative or voter error.”
“The Brennan Center’s seminal report on this issue, The Truth About Voter Fraud, found that most reported incidents of voter fraud are actually traceable to other sources, such as clerical errors or bad data matching practices. The report reviewed elections that had been meticulously studied for voter fraud, and found incident rates between 0.0003 percent and 0.0025 percent. Given this tiny incident rate for voter impersonation fraud, it is more likely, the report noted, that an American “will be struck by lightning than that he will impersonate another voter at the polls.”
@8inch, TDS is very real and plenty of retards that hate him are willing to risk it I bet.
Whether the Repub candidate is Don The Con Trump, or some other asshole, I'm not going to risk fines and prison to cast an extra vote or two, or even 10.
My legal vote is one vote. Even if I voted an extra 5-10 times after matching signatures, how many tens or hundreds of thousands of people would it take to sway a local or national election?
How would a person look sitting in prison with fines, and their candidate lost? Risk vs reward is what life choices are all about. There's never been a candidate that knew me personally, so why would I risk my freedom and savings for a few extra votes?
"@AZ: you really don’t understand the difference between absentee voting and the mass- mailing of ballots to every registered voter, living or dead, at every district in the US?"
I really, really understand that small scale absentee increases votes for Republicans so is good, but large scale mail in increases working poor voting, so shall not be allowed, even if we have to destroy the postal service to ensure it doesn't happen, because no level if evil is beneath the modern GOP.
There is no evidence of widespread voter fraud that can be suppressed by in-person voting and voter id laws, because it doesn't exist. The risk of jail, for 1 extra vote, makes sure there is almost no feaud of this type.
Even your list of known frauds... thousands of cases over decades when billions of votes were cast, shows most were rigged by election officials and could not be stopped by in-person voting.
Republicans have become pure evil, using ANY method to stay in power as their popular support shrinks.
"The only reason to allow someone to vote without proving their eligibility to vote is to allow fraud." This is not correct. A lot of homeless, transient and other poor people do not have an ID, and don't have the $100+ it takes to get one.
What stops people from voting twice isn't voter ID laws (which exist to reduce the number of poor people voting) is the huge risk of jail for infinitesimal effect 1 extra vote has on the election.
The only reason to have voter ID law is a poll tax to reduce the number of poor people that vote.
“ Hmmm. The complete opposite of mass voter fraud would be a very secure election process (the one we currently use). Good to know you approve of our current system. So why should we change it if it is that secure?”
To get more people to vote. To make it easier for people to vote. What are we changing by having mail in voting. We already allow absentee voting. It’s very secure. Let’s keep the course. But expand our reach.
Pretty fucking simple.
And you still have neglected to tell me the difference between mail in voting and absentee voting. But Dear Leader has not explained it for you to repeat.
