Election Temperature

Lastly. Would a poor white male hillbilly from Vance be a product of Affirmative action? NO

If you have no formula for priviledge as you stated earlier then you have nothing but an assumption and or opinion. Those are a dime a dozen.

Yes white men of the past had more wealth and opportunity. White European men settled this country and formed our government. This country is still a very young country and has continued to evolve.

Poor white hillbilly from Vance, you are stereotyping. A black man who has a good job you are assuming I think of affirmative action. Stereotyping and assuming, isn't that against liberal beliefs?

I have stated my opinion on Peggy McIntosh.

JC555,

I feel a wealthy Black person or a Black man with a prestigious job at a law firm or bank or a professor at Princeton will always be facing a question in the minds of others who interact that maybe this person got this job because of affirmative action

I know that if a poor white hillbilly like Vance goes to Yale Law and becomes an investment banker, people will not assume or question whether he got there because of affirmative action.

How many times have you looked at a person in color in a prestigious position in the professional world and wondered if he got there because of Affirmative Action.

Do you think Trump got into U of Penn or Wharton because of his grades. Jared Kushner got into Harvard because his dad gave Harvard a $3 million donation.

A $3 million donation to Harvard will probably get any kid, no matter the color or gender, into Harvard. Wealth has its advantages, and white men in the past have had the best advantages in the USA I believe for becoming wealthy. Do you disagree?

I find you just challenge my opinion also. You can dwell on the past all you want. I believe you learn from the past to improve and prosper. I also believe in being accountable for your own actions. As far as what I do for people, I donate to St Jude Hospital, the United Way, my high school's athletic program. All 3 are very diverse in people. I donate to my family cemetery, my local fire department. I have sponsored kids in youth sports who couldn't afford their dues. I have picked up and feed those kids when a game required travel. When my parents passed I gave some needy families clothing, appliances, and even furniture. We all have struggles. We sometimes want to point a finger but for the most part we are the direct result of what we achieve. If this country is so bad why do so many want to come. We will only fail because of ourselves. You don't know my heart either. Lastly President Trump is no racist and never was called one until becoming president.

JC555,

I’ve written about privileges of social class at length in posts of mine that you missed or ignored.

There is no precise formula for who has more privilege. I feel a wealthy black man will have more or less privilege depending on where he lives in terms of city and suburb and rural area as well as North or South.

I don’t like presuming with abt certainty anything about what it is like to be a person of color or a woman.

As I also explained in a post, if pulled over by a white policeman for a traffic stop at night in the USA, I’d rather be a lower class White guy than a middle or upper class black guy.

I’ve been stopped three times for traffic violations while driving while white in LA. Each time I was guilty of the violation. 2 out of 3 times, the policeman let me go with a warning and no ticket. (Each time I mentioned my profession, which probably helped, and once I brought up a great novel by a former LAPD cop, who is highly respected by many in law enforcement. The officer knew and liked the writer. That helped me I believe get away with no ticket.).

Did you agree with any point made by Peggy McIntosh about white privilege?

In 1964 I said this Negro bit will never end once we start with civil right:" At work can a guy complement a woman on her perfume?

"Yet its blamed on white Republican men."

We saw a lot of white Republican men committing acts of sedition this week.

I assume you are angry from the words you use.

I don’t list all the religions and ethnicities that have faced prejudice in the USA

I don’t consider myself anti-Semitic, nor would people who know me

I was writing about the prejudice that I feel President Trump has appealed to the most: anti brown, anti black, anti Muslim

Trump has not been explicitly anti-Semitic, but I’ll others correct me on that if I am wrong.

I feel I didn’t get two prestigious jobs because of affirmative action hiring in preference for a person of color or female. That might not be giving something up but they were two significant times when my whiteness was a disadvantage and not a privilege

What have u given up to people of color? . I’ve given up a lot of time and care to teach and serve them as best as I can to achieve their goals. I give up money to fund scholarships for under-represented students at my private high school in NJ.

I love to let people merge ahead of me in traffic all the time in LA. To live in LA is in part to learn how to merge with others, especially not being in a rage or road rage to get in front of others

I don’t check the ethnicity of people I let merge ahead of me.

I was in a traffic skirmish with another driver on a rainy day in downtown LA. He was a middle aged African American Uber driver. Each of our cars were damaged a bit. I thought he was more at fault. It was rainy. I didn’t want to argue. He clearly had less money than I did in terms of wealth. I paid $1600 in damages for his car and got mine fixed for under $250.

Basing stuff about who has privilege and who doesn’t on a few personal anecdotes is silly.

Trying to respond with some nuance and complexity to complex topics is difficult, especially when the person asking the questions does not seem to listen to my answers except to challenge and disagree

So be it.

You haven’t change my mind or heart about white privilege by one thing you’ve posted.

I’m sure I haven’t changed yours.

In regards to your age and time, I believe with Faulkner that the past us not past. What happened before you were born still affects and shapes a lot of what the USA is today, especially in race relations.

I find you very self-referential in your perspective.

I find you too unwilling to answer my questions while I try to answer yours.

Peggy McIntosh makes a lot of good observations about white privilege. Since she wrote it scholars have become much more nuanced about how, in regards to privilege, there are various intersections of race and class and gender and sexual orientation.

Barack Obama faced a lot more prejudice than did GW Bush or Trump. Estimates are that his ethnicity cost him at least 5% of the vote. There was a deep racialized counter-reaction to his presidency, which Trump capitalized on.

Again no anger, maybe frustration. I don't believe a wealthy black person has a disadvantage to a poor white person. You are finally admitting to wealth priviledge, don't confuse the 2.

Did Gavin Newsom use his white privilege to eat with rich friends at a restaurant during a lock down? How about ole Nancy getting her hair done? Have you reached out and expressed your concern with them abusing their priviledge? Of course not, it's much easier to tell my family with 5 kids. 2 done with college, 2 in college, and 1 with autism. Yet somehow us ignorant rednecks find a way to make it happen but probably only a result of our whiteness in your eyes

jC555,

In your anger, your are also making a very good point about social class.

Wealth has its advantages. I’ve posted before about the great advantages of inherited wealth.

Some people are born on third base because of their wealth and whiteness. Some are born on first base because of their whiteness alone.

Wealth can give advantages to an African American that a poor white person doesn’t have.

Whiteness can give advantages to a poor white person that a wealthy black man does not have.

We should be more complex or nuanced about what are sources of privilege in the USA, both in the past and especially in the present when the situation is more complex in post legal segregation USA

Again, I believe: White privilege is stronger for some than others and in some situations than others. That some white people (maybe because of a being born into a lower social class or other factors) know or feel that for them white privilege is more of a myth than a reality.

But again, white privilege has been a big reality in the past and it still exists, for some white people more than others.

Equal rights and equal justice before the law and equal opportunity are also a myth for too many African Americans or people of color in the USA, don’t you agree?

I have never heard Make America White Again. This shit you come up with. You really need to take a look at things you read and watch. They are really doing a number on you. It is also very obvious to me that most racial unrest comes from big cities that are Democrat controlled. From mayors, police chiefs, public schools, etc. Yet its blamed on white Republican men.

I asked you what have you given up. You never got the job so therefore you didn't give up anything. You mention Muslims but not Jews. Are you Antisemitic? You know Jews have been persecuted more than anyone don't you? This country has evolved since 1963. I was born in 1975. And I have said all this cool as a cucumber, you just assume I am angry because I am white I guess.

JC555,

Ok. Now you are getting more real to explain the white anger and resentment and sense of grievance that many who’re people feel and that Trump stirred up and appealed to in order to win his election in 2016.

Its a bitch to lose privileges and advantages and have to compete with people if color for stuff when you are convinced that affirmative action is giving them the advantage.

I can give you two examples of where I was denied jobs at very prestigious places because they hired an African American for one position and a woman for another over me. I had people on the interviewing committee and in the hiring process tell me that I was their favorite person or top choice for the job but they agreed with the need to hire a woman and a person of color for the position.

I know very well examples of where I’ve only received better service from workers because my wife is Mexican and talks to them in Spanish.

I know up close and personal the advantages a person of color has now applying for a job with the Los Angeles Fire Department and LAPD,

Would you have preferred to grow up black in Alabama to have more privileges and advantages? Do you want to change your color for any advantages in this USA?

I don’t.

I know very well the advantages of being a white male. I live them every day.

Let me know if you think your life in Alabama would be better if you were black or brown or Muslim rather than white?

It’s a different world today in the USA than in 1963.

Some white people want to go back to a past time when they think or know USA gave white men had a lot more advantages and privileges. MAWA: Make America Whiter Again. Ever see people hoping for that?

Come on whities tell me what you have given up that you received because of your White privilege? This should be a list a mile long.

How many of you libs have given up something so a minority could have it? Like a promotion, maybe a doctor appointment, maybe your spot in a checkout line, maybe let them enjoy your luxury car for a weekend, how about forfeiting a scholarship for yourself or child and let a minority have it, how about paying a traffic ticket for a minority who you feel got it unjustly. I bet none can give a yes and if you can't give a yes then stfu about mythical white privilege. I guess I have not recieved mine maybe yall can send me some

2muchfun....I give you back what you dish out. Don't like it then leave the fucking thread snowflake. I got the stamina you dream of

Sapp....yes Prager is a critique of Antisemitism. You are really being hard headed or you misconstrue the title. Then tell me I communicate with a fucking can. All the books you read and you misconstrue a title. Maybe being an atheist you just despise people of a religion

Sapp....I was born in 19 fucking 75. I am not concerned with where we were but where we are now and headed. I don't have a damn clue about the 1700's. Do i think slavery was wrong, yes I DO. It took white men and over a half million dead white men to end it. As wrong as slavery was, do you think we would have has many blacks in our country if we didn't have it? I have not got a damn thing for my skin color but maybe you have. I don't speak for you and you don't speak for me.

Sapp.....the article you recommended comes from a woman of a very rich family and she we to Harvard. I doubt she knew any average income or poor white people. Therefore she does not speak for those people and having a fucking clue about them. What a disgusting article written by a rich ass woman who is of course privileged. She is most likely speaking for herself.

JC555,

University of Alabama was forced to desegregate in June 1963.

Do you know any olde white people in Alabama who attended University of Alabama before it desegregated?

They had a privilege based on their whiteness that was denied to African Americans, right?

Have you ever had a conversation in person with an African American person about whether white privilege exists or not?

JC555,

Is Prager’s book a critique of antisemitism?

It doesn’t sound like it.

For me, Prager writing about debunking White privilege is like someone writing to debunk that Biden won the presidential election or debunking anti-black racism.

What’s his best reason or two for debunking White privilege?

What’s your own feeling about White privilege? Do you deny it?

Do you deny its existence in the past of the USA?

How do you think the USA would look if African Americans and women had the same rights and privileges as White men beginning in 1789?

How do you think the USA would look different if legalized segregation had never existed or if it had ended long before 1964-65?

Do you think your grandparents or parents, if they grew up in Alabama, had more privileges than black people had in Alabama at that time?

When did the University of Alabama desegregate?