20 cent idea vs. $2 idea?

" I don't agree with most of the baby-steps into socialism that we have taken"

So why don't you leave?

The USA has a mixed capitalist/socialist economic system, and some of us are trying to make minor changes to how that mixed system operates. You want drastic change of that system to eliminate the socialism. Why don't you go to Somalia or some other country with a libertarian economic system?

Can you see how that dismissive question is also very insulting?

How about if you weren't white, and instead of being asked "why don't you leave?" you were told "go back"?

"Send her back... send her back".

Are you okay being associated with that obvious bigotry?

I have never said that the US has NO socialist parts, I said it wasn't founded on socialism, and that I don't agree with most of the baby-steps into socialism that we have taken, the opposite of your accusation. I absolutely didn't say that our economic system fits my definition of socialism, although you've tried repeatedly to say that I did. You keep trying to put me into a box and tell me what I think, and you've missed nearly every time.

"I happen to be both intelligent and educated... two different things."

LOL

As our dear friend Perf is fond of saying...

First rule if holes. Stop digging.

"I am highly educated at some of the finest schools in the world. But that does not make me smarter than anyone."

Correct, because education is what you know, and intelligence is ability to see patterns in the data.

I happen to be both intelligent and educated... two different things.

"I'm going to give you a hint: when everyone disagrees with your opinion, a thinking man might have a little introspection session and realize that it's not the rest of the world that's wrong..... others may not have that ability."

I'll give you a little hint. I have been wrong a lot, and am wrong a lot... and when people tell me I'm wrong, I go do research to figure out which of us is right and which of us is wrong, THEN, and here is the key, CHANGE my opinion when I find I was wrong... that is how I stop being wrong. And I tell people, hey, I was wrong!

So here is some introspection for you, Mr. "money is created when people make, grow, harvest or do work" and Mr. "I'm not going to go look it up or even provide a definition", then when you do provide a definition, it fits the USA's economy but you say we're not socialist.... maybe you should actually get a clue before you call other people wrong, then perhaps change your opinion and admit you were wrong a bit more like I DO!

"People don't come here to get educated. They come here to get their rocks off."

Who comes to a political forum on ANY site to get their rocks off... unless they do so by arguing?

"Most of the people you choose to interact with are beyond any hope. They have drank the Kool Aid, and are happy with the taste. Not to invoke Godwins Law, but the parallels with Germany in the 1920s and 1930s are pretty clear"

By interacting with the Kool Aide drinkers he may not be changing their opinions but there are a lot of fence setters out there that may be stopping by on here and perhaps he's reaching them with some new ideas.

While I don't see eye to eye with him on everything I say... Keep up the good fight AZ.

"compared to me, most people are stupid and ignorant"

I'm going to give you a hint: when everyone disagrees with your opinion, a thinking man might have a little introspection session and realize that it's not the rest of the world that's wrong..... others may not have that ability.

"since compared to me, most people are stupid and ignorant..."

Double LOL.

I have been accused many times of stating that I was smarter than everyone here. Which I have never actually done...

I am highly educated at some of the finest schools in the world. But that does not make me smarter than anyone.

Y'know the mist important thing I learned in all of that education? How much I don't know...

We are getting closer to the root...

"It's actually 'your party sucks.'"

Really? It's not "you are party sucks?" I had no idea.

Or perhaps I was setting up to make a point about your ... I mean you're "$20 word in a 20 cent idea" comment. If I use the correct words to make an economic point, I'm accused of using $20 words to dress up 20 cent ideas. Suddenly I'm supposed to use the correct word in an actual 20 cent idea? Damned if I do or damned if I don't, because at its root, the message is what is objectionable and not the delivery.

You say I was beating a dead horse on the definition of money.... I say I was beating it into peoples' heads. Understanding the nature of money is KEY to understanding economics!

The more you know, the crazier you sound to ignorant people. The fist time I said "money is other peoples' debts", there are a lot of people here that declared me crazy.

A month later, not so much.

There are two ways to change peoples' minds.... 1) Make them like and trust you, then slowly plant and water tiny seeds, hoping they will grow into fruits of knowledge. 2) Make them hate you and really, really want to prove you wrong.

I am an asshole. I've tried to not be, and failed oh so many times. I have very little patience for stupidity and ignorance, and since compared to me, most people are stupid and ignorant...

My personality pretty much precludes option 1. This leaves option 2.

It's actually "your party sucks."

I have been participating in the fora here longer than most. I have seen a lot of people come and go.

People don't come here to get educated. They come here to get their rocks off.

So craft your message in a way that they are willing to consume it.

I happen to agree with most of your message. Conservative economics has the potential to do serious damage to the country. The Overton window has moved too far to the right. Fractional reserve banking without regulation is a time bomb. The Republicans have abandoned all semblance of a functioning political party.

Most of the people you choose to interact with are beyond any hope. They have drank the Kool Aid, and are happy with the taste. Not to invoke Godwins Law, but the parallels with Germany in the 1920s and 1930s are pretty clear.

So keep fighting the good fight. But be prepared to be challenged.

My rule for the internet, in case you were wondering...

"If you get insulted about something posted about you on a anonymous swinger's site, I doubt you have the maturity to be on the internet in the first place..."

"So you had no alternative but to continue to try to teach a pig opera..."

I suppose you are right.... I could have used this board the exact same way it was being used before I showed up.

You're party sucks.

No you're party sucks.

You're party sucks more!

No you're party sucks more!

"I attempted to ensure everyone here had basic understanding of the basics of economics. See my thread on "money" and trade deficits and other such topics. That didn't work."

So you took it upon yourself to "educate" the unwashed masses. A smart guy like you should have known how that would turn out...

"So then I introduced very basic facts into other topics, like money is borrowed into existence... and people showed their ignorance as to the nature of money."

There are a whole number of economic theories. All of them with varying degrees of accuracy. There is a reason they call economics the dismal science. You are doing nothing to disabuse anyone from that notion...

"This left me no alternative by to make long posts that included detailed explanations of very basic economic concepts."

So you had no alternative but to continue to try to teach a pig opera...

No one likes lectures. Hell, I'm in academia and I don't like lectures.

I attempted to ensure everyone here had basic understanding of the basics of economics. See my thread on "money" and trade deficits and other such topics. That didn't work.

So then I introduced very basic facts into other topics, like money is borrowed into existence... and people showed their ignorance as to the nature of money.

This left me no alternative by to make long posts that included detailed explanations of very basic economic concepts.

"If you can not describe your ideas succinctly, you do not understand them well enough."

Or it could be that others do not understand the words, or are ignorant of the basics the idea is built upon, so you have to explain in detail.

Long? Most.

Full of $20 words? Frequently.

20 cent ideas? Then you should be able to present a short explanation of the flaw other than simply dismissing as long and full of fancy words. Truth appears to be that either you don't want to or can't attack the idea directly.

That should be jist, not just.

Damn autocorrect...

I just read an excellent piece at HudfPost about Elizabeth Warren.

I am a big fan, even moreso after this article.

The just is that she, unlike almost anyone else on Capitol Hill, uses her aides to run a policy shop, and has many outside advisors to help her craft policy.

One of the parts that resonated with me was that no matter how long the resulting policy paper, she personally reads it and crafts a one-page plain language explanation if the policy.

If you can not describe your ideas succinctly, you do not understand them well enough.

I must have these definitions backwards, since I'm accused of both writing too long of explanations, while also being accused of presenting 20 cent ideas.

In my opinion:

A 20 cent idea is something short but wrong, like:
If everyone spent less, they could save more.

While a $2 idea is more complete and correct, like:
One person's spending is another person's income, so if everyone spent less, than everyone's income would go down. Savings is actually the result of an imbalance. One person is able to spend less than they earn, accumulating savings, only because another person is spending more than they earn, going into debt, creating the money the first person is accumulating.

Then to make it "real world" I'd add: By making it easier for some to save, Reaganomics widened these imbalances, which is why it was inevitable that it has resulted in debt increasing at 3x the sustainable rate for the last 40 years. The ultimate problem is that as debt/income ratios increase, the debt becomes less stable, and if/when it collapses, as was happening in 2008, it will collapse the entire economy with it.