Seriously SLS?

"...some of whom rape once or twice and stop."

Hence, not serial rapist.

And VA, you make lack expertise in that area, but your speculations are four-square with those who don't lack it.

Tramp

And SLS just became ID Discovery......

I think the serial rapists of the "I just want to violent towards women" likely do know that they are rapists, and those who don't believe they are but seek sexual gratification are, from a psychoanalytical standpoint, very different animals.

I am speculating of course. I have no expertise in this... just my conjecture.

Tramp, some of the rapists who have not been arrested whose data has been studied are classified as serial rapists. The richest source of material comes from college students, some of whom rape once or twice and stop. Others not only don't stop, they pick up the pace.

One last quote from that article: Dr. Malamuth has noticed that repeat offenders often tell similar stories of rejection in high school and of looking on as “jocks and the football players got all the attractive women.” So, entitlement.

It may be an apples and oranges thing, with the crime being the same and the motivation being different, but serial rapists are apparently quite common. Not only in colleges and universities, but out in the wild. Processing all those old rape kits that have been stacking up for a decade or more would probably give us a whole lot more data.

There is an ongoing study on the information that will be gleaned from processing 5000 rape kits acquired from 1993 to 2009 in Ohio. The article I read said that less than 20% have been processed so far, but they're already finding information that flies in the face of conventional research, including just how opportunistic serial rapists are and rather than having a preferred type of victim and method, they're all over the map on both. The research is being done at Case Western and they've already started publishing some of their findings.

Ms Molly:

You're referring to men who rape, and I was talking about the serial rapists. These two groups may appear to be the same, but I am referring to a distinct subset. The sexual gratification vs violence and anger is something that has come out of a very long history of research from the good PhDs at Quantico as well as the Behavioral Science brethren of the VICAP group.

This information in no way is trying to describe the various and sundry acts of the many, many forms of rape. It is specifically dealing with the somewhat unique psyche of the more extreme and sometimes sociopathic/psychopathic monsters.

Tramp

currentrider: "You need go no farther than old movies where The Reluctant heroine is forced into an amorous situation which she obviously secretly desired to realize that the genre is mainstream."

Eh. That's not a woman's fantasy. That's a "no means yes" male fantasy and male fantasies have been mainstream for quite awhile. It's also not what I'm talking about.

Tramp: "Contrary to common thought, the serial rapist is rarely motivated by the hope of sexual gratification and in fact, many serial rapists report routinely not experiencing a climax. The crime is one of pure anger and violence towards women and is perpetrated for that purpose."

I might have talked about this here before. There's actually some interesting research that involves working with data acquired from men who have raped but have not gotten caught. They deny they're rapists, but answer positively to questions about behaviors that constitute rape. Sexual gratification is definitely part of it for them, as is a feeling of entitlement.

Here's a quote from a NYT article titled "What Experts Know About Men Who Rape" about the risk factors in this group:

"Heavy drinking, perceived pressure to have sex, a belief in “rape myths” — such as the idea that no means yes — are all risk factors among men who have committed sexual assault. A peer group that uses hostile language to describe women is another one."

One of the scientists interviewed for the article makes the point that convicted rapists are also often convicted of other violent crimes:

"Men in prison are often “generalists,” he said: “They would steal your television, your watch, your car. And sometimes they steal sex.”

But men who commit sexual assault, and are not imprisoned because they got away with it, are often “specialists.” There is a strong chance that this is their primary criminal transgression."

So, the data from one group most often studied isn't entirely useful for extrapolation to the behaviors and motivations of rape specialists.

And none of that is why women have rape fantasies, which I think it is a way to play with a frightening reality in a safe, controllable way. I am not sure men really understand how fraught it can be to have sex with a man (or men) for the first time. Is this the time that your radar for the weird was off? Is this the time that saying no to something doesn't get you the desired result? So, one way to deal with the monster that lives in the closet is to fantasize about what happens if...and you get to outline exactly how it goes.

"My wholly unscientific poll (as in I've asked a lot of women their fantasies) says that a lot of women have rape fantasies."

As unscientific as your inquiries are, there is a fair amount of legitimate studies that show the same thing. In fact, the last time I ran across academic discussion on this, the rape fantasy was by far the most common among women.

I started to quote Current's entire last post to comment on it as well, but I'm just going to just refer to it here instead and avoid that redundancy.

You two are discussing apples and oranges here and the two ideas will never match. What you (MsMolly) are talking about is a pure fantasy. There is always a huge difference between our fantasies and reality. In reality, rape is a horrible crime of violence. Contrary to common thought, the serial rapist is rarely motivated by the hope of sexual gratification and in fact, many serial rapists report routinely not experiencing a climax. The crime is one of pure anger and violence towards women and is perpetrated for that purpose.

Here's an interesting aside to that. Many serial killers are actually motivated by sexual gratification as opposed to pure violence. Go figure.

The rape fantasy is the effectual opposite of that. This fantasy (as all do) resides in the perfect world created by our mind where no one gets hurt, everything goes according to plan, and there are no victims. That's what makes it a fantasy. In that regard, a woman or man using the kink of BDSM or other rational means in an attempt to fulfill those fantasies in a safe, victimless manner is neither weird, creepy, or anything less than what we all do on one level or another.

While that whole scene is not something that draws my particular interest, quite frankly neither is a great many things (such as 3-somes) that the more reserved crowd around here call normal. My point is that I learned a long time ago not to be condescending towards anyone's fetish or kink as long as it doesn't create a victim.

What is accepted by me is not accepted by many others and visa versa. Whether or not a given thing is weird, creepy, disgusting, etc...is almost always a point of view and thus relative to what we as individuals value...nothing more.

I like pursuing what many lifestylers would consider rather tame or vanilla sexual activities, i.e. one on one sex with the female half of a full swap couple (while Lady does the same with the male half), and our preference is separate rooms. I know, right. Extremely tame. However, I respect and encourage those who go after other things to do the same.

Tramp

You need go no farther than old movies where The Reluctant heroine is forced into an amorous situation which she obviously secretly desired to realize that the genre is mainstream. I'm not sure what to make of women who have those fantasies except to suggest that they're either very selective or poorly thought-out. What creeps me out as men who have those fantasies. There is nothing remotely sexy about sexual violence. nor is there anything remotely rare about it. It happens all the time. The idea of a fantasy as opposed to an encounter is that is entirely within the control of the owner of the fantasy. Sexual assault is the exact opposite.

Most vanilla women (in my experience) fall into one of two categories: those who have rape fantasies, and those who angrily deny that ANY women have rape fantasies.

I personally would find participation in one completely unexciting, but to each their own.

re: "suggestion of a nominal fee for a trial membership"

SLS is probably at a size where new memberships are not a big concern. However, I can't think of any cases off-hand where a "trial" of anything isn't free, aside from products where Shipping & Handling applies. I suspect it would seriously stifle the valid new memberships as well as the fakes and such to charge for a trial period, regardless of how nominal the fee.

I really like va's suggestion of a nominal fee for a trial membership. I think it goes a fair way toward eliminating all the issues that go along with any free memberships.

Fokkers: "There are other parts to BDSM, but slaves due make up a large portion..."

Yeah, maybe it's a regional thing, but I've met very few slaves in the kink and kink/swing communities. Self-described subs are thick on the ground, but 24/7 people who refer to their master and wear collars aren't all that common in the places I've lived. And subs aren't particularly subservient, in my experience, so I've never been entirely certain what it means outside of a scene.

currentrider: "As far as rape fantasies, I guess that doesn't make someone a rapist but the whole genre creeps me out."

My wholly unscientific poll (as in I've asked a lot of women their fantasies) says that a lot of women have rape fantasies. Additionally, they have trouble finding men who will fulfill those fantasies. A completely consensual fantasy role play can be pretty empowering, especially if it plays on the edge of what is a clear and present danger or an actual experience for a woman.

Of course, all the people in favor of the free-member crackdown are not free members ;-) We were no different as free members (albeit less experienced back then) as we are as paying members.

We did not do the "monthly payment" option. We waited until we saw enough value to merit shelling out $149 for the lifetime membership. It took us way longer than a week to decide that.

Also, I have not heard anyone address the issue of just signing up for another trial period after the X-day trial period has elapsed. So what would be accomplished by having the trial period? You clean out the fakes/wannabes only to have them slightly inconvenienced by having to sign up again, and be even less traceable.

Looks like the FOTSA thread is turning into the BDSM thread.

To each their own. The SM part is not for me though the B part (or B&B f you add a blindfold). I've discussed the "negotiations" that preceed S&M sessions with people who are into it. It definitely seems entirely consensual. As far as rape fantasies, I guess that doesn't make someone a rapist but the whole genre creeps me out. Personally, if I knew a guy was into that, I would avoid him.

What ever the reason for the changes, I for one agree on the free member crackdown and believe in the end it will make this site a better one. A trail period however I do not agree with being the same fakes still have access. If a person can't pay the small monthly fee that can be cancelled anytime, this tells me he/she/them are not serious about this. Any free period should not last more than three days. You know that saying "Shit or get off the crapper". Just my two cents.

Goodgolly valid point. And after I posted I did rethink it. There are other parts to BDSM, but slaves due make up a large portion, although it’s not the kind of slavery that FOSTA is supposed to stop.

Swingersontheweekend, you say fault and I say advantage. ;-)

Fokkers, just to clarify, D/s is not an inevitable part of BDSM.

(Are 4000 posts going to be enough?)

"That is part of the problem FOSTA is trying to address. Illegal immigration isn't just Mexicans. They bring in women from China and South East Asia packed into shipping containers who have to work to pay off their debt to the smugglers. It's a real thing. It's an issue I've followed for years. Slavery in all its disgusting forms pisses me off. "

Though I notice you don't mention native born exploited sex workers. I guess Murican pimps are an exceptionally civilized breed.

@GGMM

Unlike most men, I have always prided myself as a person who follows instructions. To a fault sometimes, it seems..

"It's part of the reason I'm so judgementally against the BDSM lifestyle. There's REAL slavery going on every day, everywhere, and some of you turds turn it into a fucking fetish?"

So if you have sex with a woman who has a rape fantasy, that makes you a rapist?

~S~

Now, that's funny. Lol

Tramp

We were a little concerned when we tried posting in hot dates and could not post , but seems today they have it sorted a small explanation on the content ie no k ik or cost are allowed in post . This really has no effect on us and we only see it as an improvement.

From being in business all my life, there is no real protection for being a corporation. If the corporation gets sued all the owners or principals are also sued.

The govermeent is all powerful and can seize anything from anyone they want at any time. To even think that the goveremnt is honest and obeys the laws you are very very naive

Just remember what the goverment did to the Tea Party members. The goverment seized all their bank accounts, closed down their businesses and very publicly let all the people around them from neighbors to family members that they where being investigated by the FBI for crimes.

The leader of the N Cal Tea party was in court for seven years before she got the money back that the government seized from her personal and business bank accounts. The cost of legal fees was close to 600k.

Well there goes this thread for the next 4,000 posts.

AR- I think you may have the point of BDSM a all confused. It’s not about slavery, it’s about a dominant/submissive relationship. It may look to you like slavery but it’s no where even close.

The only point was that SLS is also an LLC, so I suspect that wouldn't protect them any more than it did Backpage. I wasn't particularly interested in wading though things either ggmm. Was just curious if they were an LLC, which a quick Google search provided.

FWIW - Until this happened I wasn't even aware that Backpage even existed, in the event someone was trying to read into this that I was somehow supporting Backpage.

As for the Asian trophy wife in the hotel, it would also not surprise me that there are cuckold relationships where a guy might get off on that. To prove otherwise you'd have to meet the guy and see if he was asking for money to play with his "trophy wife". Also not something I'd go out of my way for but. Yes, that one could go either way.