Climate change

As usual, the Forums don't show me new posts on topics I create until I post a reply, so missed all this. Lots of interesting points, unfortunately sprinkled with a fair amount of animosity. However, even people I don't always agree with had some interesting points. Wayne for example made me think that the solar Return On Investment (ROI) really should factor in the costs of replacing the system at some point. Aside from the labor involved, how do I dispose of the old panels?

I suppose when replacing the system, that becomes part of that ROI. My age will factor in whether that ROI impacts me or the next person that buys my house. It will also impact me if I buy a house with solar already, but costs are coming down to the point that the ROI for a new system is less years than the warranty period of the inverter, but part of that is also because of how much electricity has gone up.

The electricity costs are part of that "pressure" to move in the direction of solar. I am not forced to do this, but when it starts costing me more NOT to go to solar, it makes less sense to resist going this way. My global influence is less than miniscule, but my ability to control MY costs is not.

As for system costs, if I look at the best prices I can find for a 10KW system, I am right around $10K (without batteries or labor). My last couple of electric bills were just over $300, so ROI isn't too far off when it's costing me nearly $4K/year for electricity. The system would be paid off before any of the warranties expired.

The other problem is that this was based on the best panel prices I could find. Unfortunately I cannot get those panels for that cost in the US unless I want to take a chance on ordering from Alibaba. com .

@DAV

Damn . . .

You figured me out. Congrats. You won some prize. What it is, I dunno.

You are 100% correct that we have different views on the government, but we have some that are the same. You just are not willing to admit that last part. I can name a bunch of wonderful things the government does. I bet you would have problem saying 2.

Here, let me help you.

This is where OUR tax money goes.

1. We have a military that is there to defend our country.

1. We have clean air and water. Without those two we die, near immediately.

1. We have agencies that protect our food from being sold to us as bad. Without that, we would die in time.

1. We have a government that funds things that help us. The government funded the development of the internet. It's out there for YOU and I and the world to use. Want to talk about a boost to the economy? That's one helluva a return on our investment! They funded and still operate the GPS system that the world uses. Again, woo hoo, great for the economy.

1. They have a system in place that we do not have tyranny and dictators. We are a country of laws, not a country run by a monarchy or dictator. Because of that setup, we have the longest running form of government in the world.

1. We have the world's currency. This gives us a lot of power and us, as citizens stability with our currency.

1. We have public roads and public spaces. Look at those national parks in Alabama!

1. We control pollution. It could be a LOT fucking better and it has gotten better. The days of dumping anything into the water is pretty much over.

And yes, you are right. EVERY SINGLE law is taking away liberty and freedom.

Let me ask you this question. What liberties and freedoms do you NOT have that you would even want? Is it murder? Is it speeding? Is it theft? Is it the ability to sell stuff to people that don't work (snake oil?) Is it that you can't have a fully automatic 100 round machine gun? Show me on the doll where the evil government has hurt you.

Now do I question people? FUCK YEAH. I am doing it right now. Do I question scientists? Of course. But here is the difference between you and I. I am willing to listen and try and learn from them before I turn into a 13 year old girl who immediately rebels against her parents for ruining her life. But guess what . . . you already do listen to scientists without questioning. Look around you. EVERYTHING that you can see all around you came from science and you do not judge it ore rebel against it, you have accepted it. The computer, the TV, the Cell phone, the microwave (US Government invention), the tylenol you took, the anesthesia your wife was on during her surgery. So what is the true reason you only question such a few things and hate the government for such a few things?

@Wayne
origisenergy. com/archer-residents-and-origis-energy-reach-agreement-for-sand-bluff-solar-project/

Yeah. That was a misleading release. Reading more from different sources, yup, they just opted to move and are still looking.

BTW, I miss Skeeters!

Now to the billions.

The horse analogy sounds good at the high level, but it's hogwash. No one is forcing ANYONE to buy an EV. NO ONE. You still have the choice to buy a ICE car. You will lose that right though. NOT BECAUSE the government telling you so directly. But because the car makers are choosing to NOT make them. IIRC it was originally expected in the phase out of ICE that it would be 2040. IIRC the US government said they would stop buying them by 2035. The car makers don't think just the US. We are a HUGE market, but we are not the whole market. We are a little more than the EU in new car sales. The EU said fuck that shit, we are making you move faster.

Now, what is this 'natural' line bullshit? How do you phase something man-made naturally? If you think this through you will see it is PLENTY of time. The average age for a car on the road in the US is over 12 years. It keeps rising. So by 2030 when CA bans the sales of ICE cars, the average age will probably be 14. That means you have 22 years to worry about ICE cars. Isn't that 'natural' enough?

In regards to the can't afford to heat. HUH? What does that have to do with Solar? Solar is CHEAPER to produce electricity. Wouldn't the issue be more on the wages side? Wouldn't the issue be more GLOBAL not local? A unit of oil or natural gas or coal is the same at the commodities broker regardless of where you live in the world. The delivery cost is the variable.

If that's all you got... your "billions of lives destroyed" statement seems a little dramatic.

EA , knows everything about everything . If you don’t believe me just ask him.

Pass the popcorn

Wayne and EA

Sorry Wayne but you are not going to get the last word in with the man behind the all knowing curtain, EA. What you will accomplish is the two of you will tie up this board with your tit for tat banter.

<p>"<span style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:tahoma,verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:14px">Wayne, you never followed up on your "billions of lives will be destroyed" comment."</span></p>

<p><span style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:tahoma,verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:14px">If you force people to adopt new technology that is not mature yet, bad things will happen. You are already seeing it. People not able to afford to heat and cool their houses. Not able to afford gas to drive to work. Supply chains interrupted which is driving up the costs of food. You have to let it happen naturally. </span></p>

<p>When cars first started being used, they didn't ban horses. In fact, there were laws in place to support the horses. Cars had to stop and turn off their engine to not spook a horse. In some places, a person with a flag had to walk ahead of the car to warn horse riders. Horses were slowly phased out naturally. To this day, in most places, horses are still legal and allowed to share the road with cars. </p>

<p>eroticamazon,</p>

<p>"<span style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:open sans,sans-serif; font-size:14px">I just checked and a deal was met with Archer residents."</span></p>

<p><span style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:open sans,sans-serif; font-size:14px">You left out some details. The deal they made with Archer residents was that they would not build the solar farm. LOL</span></p>

<p><a href="https://www.swinglifestyle.com/profile/lookup.cfm?usercode=41370601">eroticamazon</a>,</p>

<p>I have not been able to find any source that says the solar farm has been approved. The most recent article I could find is from June 6th 2022:</p>

<p>"Last July, the Alachua County commissioners denied Miami-based Origis Energy from building a solar farm on 638 acres outside Archer on County Road 346.</p>

<p>The company has been trying to appeal the ruling based on a state law that Origis lawyers say allows similar projects by right.</p>

<p>Origis Energy officials, however, announced Monday that the company has given up its appeals to build the farm, proposed to be located in the unincorporated area of Alachua County outside of the city limits."</p>

We are going to hear climate change over and over and it will rule over the weak.. James O’keefe had a young lady on April 21/ 2021 go on a date with a CNN VP. . She got him talking and he is laughing at how stupid people are. He tells her Covid is over , no longer a story. But CNN is going to pivot to Climate Change . He explains you can find scientists out there that will say what you want. Project Veritas was vilified because they did this undercover. ……You see when someone finds the truth , they smear the person.

"So you are saying if you don't agree with and support"...

I am not responsible for answering to the things you simply make up out of thin air.

Well, it took a little while, but everyone's true colors come out eventually...

Pollution became Global Cooling then morphed into Global Warming (or vice versus) and now has been redefined to the ambiguous "Climate Change". Will efforts to slay the ambiguous Climate Change continue unabated? Yes, they will ($$$$). The Global Community of Nations have that bit firmly in the mouth of the galloping horse.

Will it be solved is the question? And how will we know?

For shits and grins the History Channel notes that on August 09, 1975, the term Global Warming appears for the first time in print; a mere 47 years ago. Perspective? How old were you 47 years ago?

Since we blocked EA years ago pass it on.. here are some facts from weather scientists !

Have him look at El Nina and La Nina weather patterns since our time on earth.. its science man and it does explain it!

@EA: oh! You're one of those type of people. Gotcha. The smartest man in the room. Knows all, sees all.. nice we definetley have opposing opinions on government and its true function. We also disagree on the farce known as climate change. We also disagree on individual rights and liberties.
From what I have gathered you prefer a country where rights and liberties are sanctioned to only those who the government deems fit. The ability to live in society is only granted to those who agree with a certain view. The dependence on government is absolute. That trading liberty for security is an absolute must. That its man's fault for climate change period, end of story. Never ever ever question government, scientists(who receive funding from the government) or AL Gore. Nope, gotcha. You are truly one of those people. Best wishes.

@DAV

"When we begin to regulate for the common good, individual freedom is lost."

That is 100% accurate and correct.

Now let me tell you what you should do to adhere to that belief.

Leave.

Seriously. LEAVE. Leave the country. You need to be a man without a country. I am not sure where you are going to find that, but what you keep missing is that you live in a society.

Do you want the benefits of society? Do you want that clean water when you turn the water on? Do you want the shit in the toilet to leave your property when you pull the flusher? Do you want roads? Do you want electricity? Do you want currency? Do you want property rights?

All of those are part of society. To live in society, we have to have some rules. And yes, just like George Carlin mentioned, every law is taking freedom away, but ask yourself, from morality, should those laws be there? Should someone be able to come and just rape your wife with no consequences from the law? Sure, you can argue that you will fuck that person up, perhaps even kill him. Ok, good luck. He killed you, raped your wife, then killed her. All of the laws that punish that behavior act as a deterrent for the person to NOT do that. In your desired world, that person would have no consequences for those actions.

Speaking on my own behalf. I would not want to live there, where that could happen. I will trade having to put my seatbelt on or get a fine for protection from another country invading us. I will stay the hell out of the HOV lane if I am driving alone and not paying that $461 fine for the firemen that protect property. Hell, I'd even work 250 hours a year to pay for the Coast Guard to help the people on Sanibel Island, a military, roads to drive on, a judicial system, etc. Sure, I may not like ALL of it, but I like almost all of it. Those that don't even like any of it . . . again, be the person without a country.

If you are attempting to use nuance to improve your paper-thin arguments, Dav, you're gonna need to do better than that.

@Wayne

You can tell me the areas. I went to UF! Go GATORS! :)

I read GRU already has it in place with a third party putting it in. I just checked and a deal was met with Archer residents. It was done in June. From the release, it looks to be up and running and functional by 2024.

In regards to tiles versus panels versus window panes. Yeah. I can see that. There is a huge market to make things aesthetic. One of the reasons that you do not see as much solar as you would expect where I live (Earth Day was invented here) has to do with 2 things. ONE, our area is known for the red barrel tile roofs. Look at Santa Barbara pictures and it is as if it is in the building code that you have to have those as a roof. I had one house that had them and I had another that was not. TWO, just like Gainesville, we have a LOT of fucking trees. A LOT of them. Right now there is a HUGE fight going on over a bike path that is going to get bikes off the road for about 1.2 miles. There are roughly 300 trees in that path. The tree huggers are PISSED that . . . 17 trees need to be cut down. I think only four are native. (Lookup modoc bike path)

I think in due time you will see more of the clear window replacement issues for solar. But, in all honesty, I am not so sure that it will work on a lot of the houses there. When I last lived there, I lived off 13st, to the west , in a couple of blocks on 6th. I could barely see the sky there because of all the trees.

In regards to the Tedx talk. Yeah. I have seen that guy's speech, the one with horses. The guy is so misleading. Here, let me give you an idea how fucked up he is. In 2000, how many cold fusion websites were there? A metric fuckton! Why? Because it gave an easy way to do database driven sites. Now, here we are 22 years later. How many CF sites are there? HINT: Other than SLS :)

This guy's argument was so misleading and misrepresenting. He took a snapshot, a few years prior, on how electricity was created. He argued that even if your provider was 90% GREEN and 10% coal you would get 100% coal energy for all. That is how he inflated things. He also left out that coal has been decreasing at a RAPID amount. It has not stopped going down in usage. Sure, China has a bunch of coal coming online, but it has more GREEN coming online than that.

The best way to sell people on green energy is not to sell them on green energy. Sell them where it counts. Their wallet. Very few people really give a fuck about the earth. They barely care what their grandkids will have. Let the green side be a side benefit. You could also let the 'freedom and liberty' people believe that by getting solar they are telling the GOVERNMENT run/mandated utility to FUCK OFF and that they are also telling those Middle Eastern Shria law MF's to fuck off. That will keep them happy, the fact that it is better for the environment is not relevant to the Red Man Chewing Tobacco crowd.

"You knew exactly what I meant."

I generally stay out of climate change discussions, because the climate change deniers never have logical arguments or even the barest understanding of science and I can't even with that nonsense. However, this stuff? This is just language. NOBODY KNOWS EXACTLY WHAT YOU MEAN, particularly when you flood the airwaves with histrionic posturing. Which you've been doing ad nauseum.

Jesus.

Wow you've got to be fucking kidding me. You knew exactly what I meant. Wow talk about a case for forced sterilzation

"What's next for the common good? moraility?"

We "regulate" all kinds of "moral" things, like theft, murder, assault, rape, age of consent, etc.

You don't think very carefully before you dump your question-bukkake into the electronic ether.

People who worship climate change are the same people who worshipped Covid. AL Gore has Been preaching this BS since he got ran off . Hasn’t anyone seen the Project Veritas secret Interview with the CNN program director . The program director openly said Covid is over . We are going to pivot to climate change by getting a bunch of hack scientists ….Go watch it . You people are being played like a sick banjo . Look Climate change might be your religion but it will end bad .

When we begin to regulate for the common good, individual freedom is lost. What's next for the common good? moraility?? These are the same scientists that wanted to cover the poles with coal dust because of the impending ice age in the 70s. The same government that told the Tuskegee people no, it's fine. Nope question everything

Ahhh the government did it bullshit. No the government is not a creator of anything. They consume only. They do not make anything. They produce nothing. They are merely a few trying to control the many for fun and profit. Mainly for profit. Again I call bullshit on climate change and its farce to create panic. How thick were the ice sheets that covered the earth? What happened to them? Nope too many hippies, to many blind following the blind. Always screaming the sky is falling. Government is not reason, it is not eloquence,—it is force! Like fire, it is a dangerous servant, and a fearful master; never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action.”

It seems to us that there is indeed climate change. The temperature record shows accelerated warming; the increasingly violent weather is a by product. The only thing up for debate is the extent to which human activities have contributed to and accelerated climate change. As we read the data, there is a strong temporal association with human activity, and that association has scientific face-validity as a cause based on our knowledge of atmospheric chemistry and physics. Unless someone has a competing theory supported by data, we'll go with the view that human activity is indeed accelerating climate change. We also think that there are a number of no-regrets strategies including --but not limited to -- developing and using renewable energy sources wherever pragmatic (yes we do have solar panels) ; minimizing waste and promoting reuse whenever possible and recycling the rest of the time; supporting research towards limiting the extent and effects of climate change; encouraging discussion and debate around public policy. We believe that there is such a thing as common good, and the common good includes a healthy and safe environment for all.